Anchor Strobe Lights & Underwater Lights

[slug]

Originally Posted by StuM

COLREGs allso encourages this:

Rule 30 c:
A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length, shall also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.






Again, COLREGS agrees with you

Rule 36
... Any light to attract the attention of another vessel shall be
such that it cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation. For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided.

Flashing light means attention

When you purchase one its typically called. Marker light

Not navigation light

A long line , mooring bouy , fish farm ....all fly flashing lights telling you to “ beware “



At sea there are millions of these

[Jamme]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Strobe Lights (from 2010) ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...hts-42229.html

Thanks Gord.

[slug]

A strobe on a small craft is one of your most important safety devices

Small craft do not carry status lights

I am aground

Red over red the captain is dead

Restricted ability to maneuver

The only way you can communicate your status with other ships... notify then that you are having a bad day , hove too in a force 10 .. is with a strobe

It’d use it at anchor to protect my boat from collision

Particularly in the carribean were half the mariners are stoned , drunk or just plain stupid

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by slug

Flashing light means attention
When you purchase one its typically called. Marker light
Not navigation light
A long line , mooring bouy , fish farm ....all fly flashing lights telling you to “ beware “
At sea there are millions of these

You are conflating low intensity marker lights with high visibility masthead strobe lights.

I agree. In some areas of the world it is common in near coastal and inland waters to see low intensity marker lights used on fishing gear such as nets and FADs.

Originally Posted by slug

A strobe on a small craft is one of your most important safety devices
Small craft do not carry status lights
I am aground
Red over red the captain is dead
Restricted ability to maneuver
The only way you can communicate your status with other ships... notify then that you are having a bad day , hove too in a force 10 .. is with a strobe
It’d use it at anchor to protect my boat from collision
Particularly in the carribean were half the mariners are stoned , drunk or just plain stupid

Small craft is ambiguous; however, there are specific regulations (and laws in the US and other countries) for ALL power or sailing vessels to have required 'navigational' lights.

Hove to in force 10??? (I don't think that would last long.)

In various places around SE Asia it is not uncommon to see the local population using all manner of light to illuminate their small fishing boats at night (usually low intensity lighting). This doesn't make it right. I also suspect cruisers in areas infested with charter boats full of 'wannabes' also take greater precaution. But, there is a difference between taking reasonable precautions in a crowded anchorage, and being a nuisance (which is getting back to the OP's original point).

For example, if I am in a crowded anchorage I tend to use my masthead anchor light and low intensity 'red' cabin lights. That is quite sufficient to illuminate my boat at night and cannot be confused with any sort of nav aid.

Regardless of what some people say or do, there are very specific rules and regulations regarding lighting on vessels and navigational aids and waterborne objects. People are either ignorant of the rules, or they choose to ignore them. IMHO...they are the googans of the cruising community.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

You are conflating low intensity marker lights with high visibility masthead strobe lights.

I agree. In some areas of the world it is common in near coastal and inland waters to see low intensity marker lights used on fishing gear such as nets and FADs.



Small craft is ambiguous; however, any power or sailing vessel under 12 meters is required to have lights by law.

Hove to in force 10??? (I don't think that would last long.)

In various places around SE Asia it is not uncommon to see the local population using all manner of light to illuminate their small fishing boats at night (usually low intensity lighting). This doesn't make it right. I also suspect cruisers in areas infested with charter boats full of 'wannabes' also take greater precaution. But, there is a difference between taking reasonable precautions in a crowded anchorage, and being a nuisance (which is getting back to the OP's original point).

Regardless of what some people say or do, there are very specific rules and regulations regarding lighting on vessels and navigational aids and waterborne objects. People are either ignorant of the rules, or they choose to ignore them. IMHO...they are the googans of the cruising community.

The Rule covering small fishing boats in the developing world is called The Poor Fishermans rule
They may illuminate at night with anything .. a fire . A flashlight a kerosine lantern

There is no nuisance rule

Banging halyards , wailing windmills , Honda generators , barking dogs , drunk live aboards yelling at their wives, dope heads beating bongo drums , eye sore multihulls with rust bleed topsides , ribs hauling add thru the anchorage ...

These nuisances are simply a fact of modern life in the Caribbean

[tarian]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

People are either ignorant of the rules, or they choose to ignore them. IMHO...they are the googans of the cruising community.

This is correct and I cannot see why there is an argument

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by slug

...Small craft do not carry status lights

I am aground

Red over red the captain is dead

Restricted ability to maneuver

The only way you can communicate your status with other ships... notify then that you are having a bad day....

He brings up a good point I don't think I have ever heard answered seriously. Yes, we can all read COLREGS. No, none of us carry the vertical lights needed to comply, and neither the CG nor and commercial mariner expects us to.


So what makes the most sense when not able to steer (sea anchor, drogue, no rudder, etc.) but not actually in distress?

• Strobe? You are not in distress.
• Anchor light plus deck lights? But you are moving, although probably very slowly relative to everything else.

That's all the lights you've got.




[Let's skip the singlehander case--that's been flogged to death]

[tarian]

Originally Posted by slug

Banging halyards , wailing windmills , Honda generators , barking dogs , drunk live aboards yelling at their wives, dope heads beating bongo drums , eye sore multihulls with rust bleed topsides , ribs hauling add thru the anchorage ...

Oh my Goodness you know me to well

[Gypsyjon]

I use 2 of these lights as anchor lights. I place on on the forward part of the pilot house and one on the rear.
They are solar rechargeable and will last for 3 nights without sun during the day.
In the morning I take them down and put them in the cockpit to charge since they would fall off if I left them up on the house.
They are visible 2 nm and do a much better job than the provided anchor light. They also stand out quite well against a background of city lights.

https://www.amazon.com/White-Steady-...omotive&sr=1-1

[slug]

Originally Posted by thinwater

He brings up a good point I don't think I have ever heard answered seriously. Yes, we can all read COLREGS. No, none of us carry the vertical lights needed to comply, and neither the CG nor and commercial mariner expects us to.


So what makes the most sense when not able to steer (sea anchor, drogue, no rudder, etc.) but not actually in distress?

• Strobe? You are not in distress.
• Anchor light plus deck lights? But you are moving, although probably very slowly relative to everything else.

That's all the lights you've got.




[Let's skip the singlehander case--that's been flogged to death]

The color for “distress” is red

The color for “special purpose” is yellow ... consult pilot book , notice to mariners to identify its purpose

The color for “mark me “is white

Do not use a red or yellow as a general purpose mark me light

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by thinwater

He brings up a good point I don't think I have ever heard answered seriously. Yes, we can all read COLREGS. No, none of us carry the vertical lights needed to comply, and neither the CG nor and commercial mariner expects us to.


So what makes the most sense when not able to steer (sea anchor, drogue, no rudder, etc.) but not actually in distress?

• Strobe? You are not in distress.
• Anchor light plus deck lights? But you are moving, although probably very slowly relative to everything else.

That's all the lights you've got.

[Let's skip the singlehander case--that's been flogged to death]

Slug is conflating tangential issues to support a straw man argument.

The COLREGS and other laws do cover what lights are required by vessel length and also by the vessels primary purpose (eg a tug boat requires different lights compared to a commercial fishing boat or a pleasure sailboat).

Rule 37 is very clear on what types of signals are appropriate when a vessel is in distress AND requires assistance. (But in practicality....any signaling device that might attract the attention of other boaters or rescue personnel can and should be used when you require assistance at sea.)

Although international regs (Rule 36) state a high visibility strobe should not be used, US inlnad rules state a strobe is an acceptable emergency signaling device. Also, a high visibility rapidly flashing strobe light is virtually universally recognized as a distress signal by most navies, commercial mariners, and rescue organizations around the world. It attracts attention!

(Strobe lights are not the same as low intensity white or yellow slow pulsating lights typically used as markers, or the red flashing lights used on navigational buoys and channel markers.)

When trailing a drogue, the vessel is still making way; the vessel may not be in distress (although the crew may be distressed), unless the drogue is being used for emergency steering (see below).

When a parachute is deployed it is typically well out to sea and the vessel is distressed (not maneuverable and at the mercy of the seas) and simply trying to ride out a storm. A strobe might be appropriate to alert others. (But if you have a parachute deployed in high seas/storm conditions...hopefully no one would be near you to see it because neither vessel would have much control.)

If you lose your rudder...your vessel is certainly distressed. If you are able to steer with an emergency rudder or even a drogue you're still distressed, but underway, so normal lighting would be appropriate at sea. You would likely require assistance when entering a harbor so using a strobe, flood light, etc. would be appropriate to garner attention and for vessels offering assistance to identify you more easily.

In a Pacific crossing I lost a forestay 850 nm west of San Francisco. Fortunately we did not lose the mast. After getting things under control I called PAN PAN and was relayed via ham radio to the USCG who issued a notice to mariners in the vacintiy and tracked me back to S.F. via AIS updates and net checkins. Enroute we only encountered 3 commercial ships. When they came within 5 nm we immediately made contact, informed them of our limited maneuverability and requested they alter course. Only 1 was not aware of our situation, and all three asked if we required any additional assistance. We even got a fly over by the USCG when we were within 50 nm off the coast. Although I was still able to sail the boat under main alone I had limited maneuverability (under sail) and was considered a distressed vessel (that may require immediate assistance if things went south). At night I displayed my masthead tricolor because we were underway and not requiring assistance.

Each emergency situation is different. People react to emergency situations differently. But, again...this is tangential and conflating emergency situations with the OP's original comments/question regarding lights in an anchorage.

[Michael Pope]

I feel that a strobe light at masthead level is a very valuable asset to have

just for those rare instances where one is forced to hove to and Lie -a hull in heavy weather . If the seas are appreciably higher than your freeboard all the navigation lights will be virtually invisible . as the show for such brief intervals.

A strobe light cannot be confused with any natural light such as lightning and is generally visible from the bridge of a larger vessel.

There a lot of areas world wide where there are fishing vessels anchored offshore overnight waiting to start earning their catch at first light. They use strobes and survive. I feel we should encourage any devise that saves lives
and this is certainly one of those . Just encourage limitation their use to where they are actually needed. I have been run down at night and lived . Perhaps despite the lousy visibility the collision could have been avoided If I had had a Strobe. Michael Pope

[Mooseboat]

Being an Ex-USCG SAR Boat Coxswain and Career Marine Law Enforcement officer. Over 36 year’s of responding to REAL vessel in distress, please *DO NOT* contact Marine Law Enforcement and file a false MAYDAY claim because of your personal frustrations with some A-hole that’s upsetting you with his obnoxious mooring lights. (BAD IDEA!!!) Very good chance that that will blow up in your face in a hurry. Bottom line is of course! If we see a vessel underway at night that’s lit up like Luna Park it will be boarded and most likely summoned.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

Slug is conflating tangential issues to support a straw man argument.

The COLREGS and other laws do cover what lights are required by vessel length and also by the vessels primary purpose (eg a tug boat requires different lights compared to a commercial fishing boat or a pleasure sailboat).

Rule 37 is very clear on what types of signals are appropriate when a vessel is in distress AND requires assistance. (But in practicality....any signaling device that might attract the attention of other boaters or rescue personnel can and should be used when you require assistance at sea.)

Although international regs (Rule 36) state a high visibility strobe should not be used, US inlnad rules state a strobe is an acceptable emergency signaling device. Also, a high visibility rapidly flashing strobe light is virtually universally recognized as a distress signal by most navies, commercial mariners, and rescue organizations around the world. It attracts attention!

(Strobe lights are not the same as low intensity white or yellow slow pulsating lights typically used as markers, or the red flashing lights used on navigational buoys and channel markers.)

When trailing a drogue, the vessel is still making way; the vessel may not be in distress (although the crew may be distressed), unless the drogue is being used for emergency steering (see below).

When a parachute is deployed it is typically well out to sea and the vessel is distressed (not maneuverable and at the mercy of the seas) and simply trying to ride out a storm. A strobe might be appropriate to alert others. (But if you have a parachute deployed in high seas/storm conditions...hopefully no one would be near you to see it because neither vessel would have much control.)

If you lose your rudder...your vessel is certainly distressed. If you are able to steer with an emergency rudder or even a drogue you're still distressed, but underway, so normal lighting would be appropriate at sea. You would likely require assistance when entering a harbor so using a strobe, flood light, etc. would be appropriate to garner attention and for vessels offering assistance to identify you more easily.

In a Pacific crossing I lost a forestay 850 nm west of San Francisco. Fortunately we did not lose the mast. After getting things under control I called PAN PAN and was relayed via ham radio to the USCG who issued a notice to mariners in the vacintiy and tracked me back to S.F. via AIS updates and net checkins. Enroute we only encountered 3 commercial ships. When they came within 5 nm we immediately made contact, informed them of our limited maneuverability and requested they alter course. Only 1 was not aware of our situation, and all three asked if we required any additional assistance. We even got a fly over by the USCG when we were within 50 nm off the coast. Although I was still able to sail the boat under main alone I had limited maneuverability (under sail) and was considered a distressed vessel (that may require immediate assistance if things went south). At night I displayed my masthead tricolor because we were underway and not requiring assistance.

Each emergency situation is different. People react to emergency situations differently. But, again...this is tangential and conflating emergency situations with the OP's original comments/question regarding lights in an anchorage.

Sorry , you are wrong

Show me a white distress signal

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by slug

Sorry , you are wrong

Show me a white distress signal

REALLY?

https://www.landfallnavigation.com/s...ue-lights.html

https://www.acrartex.com/products/c-strobe-led

https://siriussignal.com/shop/plb-strobe-light/

https://www.liferaftstore.com/Emerge...Pro_p_459.html

https://northamericansurvivalsystems...ir-led-strobe/

https://daniamant.com/products/odeo-strobe/

If you need more examples...please let us know.


I suspect some of the confusion results from the inane ruling by the UN's COLREG IMO subcommittee on the outdated European practice for using a strobe light to signal for collision avoidance. The US inland rule allows a strobe light as an emergency distress signal, AND the SOLAS Convention stipulates life rafts and life vests have WHITE strobes lights.

So, even the UN IMO COLREG and SOLAS contradict each other. But, to reiterate, world navies, commercial mariners (at least the several I know) and sea and land rescue orgs clearly identify a white, high intensity, rapidly flashing strobe light as a distress and/or warning signal.