Are you put off sailing in the EU?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by cahlgren

It was dealt with here because of the question originally asked. I won't bother your thread again.

Many of us here are interested. Otherwise, we wouldn't be posting, and the original poster wouldn't have asked.

I suggest you continue to post updates here. If the few complainers don't like it, they don't have to read it. It's a public forum, so anyone can post.

I for one would like to know how this ultimately gets resolved. Your situation is the exact real-world data people need in order to make decisions.

[cahlgren]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Cahlgren, I didn't mean any offense and your problem is certainly worthwhile discussing and documenting. That's why it is better to sometimes have a separate thread to stay focused on your specific issue. But, it is the way that forums twist and turn in discussion.

I wasn't offended, just didn't want to distract from the original discussion. I didn't want a separate thread yet - maybe once we get a conclusion, as we are still in a legal battle.

[monte]

Thanks Cahlgren. BTW, I understand you have to leave the EU within 18 months, and you state you did and have marina reciepts to prove it. What kind of evidence to they think is sufficient to prove you left the EU?
I can understand they may think log books or spot locations could be faked, but a marina receipt with the vessel details would seem pretty conclusive to me. Do they require an official clearing in/out document?

[cahlgren]

Originally Posted by monte

What kind of evidence to they think is sufficient to prove you left the EU?

They won't tell us what proof they will accept.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by cahlgren

They won't tell us what proof they will accept.

Remember it is Portugal and they are office clerks. They may actually not know themselves what constitutes a proof in such a case. They might be pestering you just to tick a box and claim they are necessary out there.

I am sorry to put this bluntly but I have seen similar cases in Portugal and also (to a less severe degree) in Spain.

If you have a marina slip that has your boat's name on it and if the place where this marina is located clearly qualifies as a non-EU state, then you are on the top. If outward clearance is required (and assuming you did not clear out) then they may punish you for not clearing out but they cannot punish you for not leaving the EU.

Just do not be naive and do not leave the original of the proof in their hands - for they may as well 'lose' it.

I am sorry to possibly sound rough on Portugal but I have visited twice (2003 and 2007) and the administration they had there was as bad as one can get.

b.

[monte]

OK so just to clarify, is a marina slip from Gibralter, in or out as far as VAT is concerned.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by monte

OK so just to clarify, is a marina slip from Gibralter, in or out as far as VAT is concerned.

Why not ask the marina management in Gibraltar then?

"... The British overseas territories and Gibraltar are not part of the customs territory of the Community and therefore are to be treated as any other non-EU port of call..."

The above is an official EU stand. Do not ask me if Portuguese customs officers can speak English or use the Internet. Some do, some do not.

And one must remember about all the attached tickets: TI duration limits, etc.

b.

[boatman61]

This might be of interest to the wealthier non EU cruisers wanting to do the Med for a few years... and an investment to boot...
Read it all... carefully..
Costa del bargain: Is now the time to pick up a dream home in the Spanish sun? - Yahoo! Finance UK

[letsgetsailing3]

Hey, what happened to Cahlgren?

[cahlgren]

I don't really have any updates other than we left Portugal with the boat and are out of the EU VAT and Customs Zones. Hopefully there will be a ruling from the EC Commission soon, so we can feel safe inside the EU without fear. Our lawyer couldn't really answer whether or not Portugal can influence other countries to come after us or not.

[letsgetsailing3]

Wow. Interesting update. At least they had to let you go, I guess.

I'd think you'd be completely safe outside of the EU.

[cahlgren]

They didn't technically let us go

We figure we'd be safe out of the EU, but we would like to enter Spain and anchor for a bit. Hopefully we'll get an answer soon.

[goboatingnow]

At the present time, VAt enforcement is country specific. So yiu will not find any issues once you have reset the VAT clock in other countries

Dave

[wtmf]

I was Ukraine and left before my 90 day maximum stay. I went to Moldova for one week. I stay for another 85 days in Ukraine and was at the airport leaving when they told me I stayed over 90 days. I told them and they saw the stamp in my passport and they said "Moldova doesn't count." I had to ask twice because I could not believe my ears. Moral of the story, always have a paddle.

[letsgetsailing3]

Whatever happened here?

I always look for news, but the reports are sparse...