Avoiding coastal surf? How do you do it?

[Franziska]

Hey, just happened to look at the port of Nazare in Portugal on a set of Cm93 charts.
As it goes I know that North to the lighthouse there is a world famous surfspot.
Great for surf pros, surely not for a sailboat hugging the coast.

On the charts there seems to be no indication to this.
So I am thinking, if I am completely new to an area and do not know about this and have only charts, how do I avoid getting accidentally into something like this?

I know that it's prudent to keep a distance from shore. Still wondering though why there are no indications on the charts....

[CFS Klopas]

It would help if you posted the chart and identified the spot you're talking about.

[hpeer]

I dont kjow, it’s pretty famous. I think you either know what he means or not. But, of course, a chart pic would be nice.

That said I’ve wondered the same. I see tide rips on charts all the time. I would guess some of the Hawaiian islands have similar features.

Are you using a raster chart of the official charts or a vector chart? Maybe it’s on the official charts but not the electronic vector charts?

[nhschneider]

Some charts may indicate 'Breakers' or 'Breaking Surf' but it's rare. Unless you have storm conditions, it's unusual for breaking surf to form in water deeper than 5 fathoms and in many places it won't form unless it's 3 fathoms or less.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hey, just happened to look at the port of Nazare in Portugal on a set of Cm93 charts.
As it goes I know that North to the lighthouse there is a world famous surfspot.
Great for surf pros, surely not for a sailboat hugging the coast.

On the charts there seems to be no indication to this.
So I am thinking, if I am completely new to an area and do not know about this and have only charts, how do I avoid getting accidentally into something like this?

I know that it's prudent to keep a distance from shore. Still wondering though why there are no indications on the charts....

There is no need to mark surf on the charts -- it's obvious from the depth contour. Why would you be "hugging the coast"? 90% of the dangers of navigating come from land or stuff near land. Coasts are not for hugging! Stand off well offshore, especially the Portugese coast, at least several miles!

[Franziska]

Hey Dockhead, I did not say that I would hug the coast, but some may be tempted to do so.

The reason I ask is that I have seen such markings on charts (Columbia River Delta for example).
Not the case here.

Looking at the contours almost the complete Portuguese coast looks like surfers paradise (and sailors nightmare with regards to shore side surf).
Is that coast really that bad from this respect?

I know it's not the height that kills, it's the ground ;-)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hey Dockhead, I did not say that I would hug the coast, but some may be tempted to do so.

The reason I ask is that I have seen such markings on charts (Columbia River Delta for example).
Not the case here.

Looking at the contours almost the complete Portuguese coast looks like surfers paradise (and sailors nightmare with regards to shore side surf).
Is that coast really that bad from this respect?

I know it's not the height that kills, it's the ground ;-)

You won't see (typically) surf marked on charts, you'll see tidal races and bars. The Columbia River has a notorious bar crossing.



The Portugese coast is pretty bad, but I'm not as knowledgeable as some others on here, like Boatman61. It's not a sailor's nightmare because you don't get anywhere near it without a good reason. It's a lee shore under the prevailing winds, so all the more. What is a nightmare is the entrances to many harbours on that coast. A sailor was killed recently and a boat wrecked.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Franziska,

One way to approach this would be to get a list of the world's top 100 surfing sites. Then find charts for those bottoms and figure out what kinds of contours to look for to anticipate big waves.

In addition, places where the trade winds blow long and from mainly one direction, produce onshore sets, another place where it is not depth that is the worry, but being slammed against a reef.

Sometimes we are tempted towards being inshore, there's more to look at, or the back eddies of currents may be useful, but as Dockhead says, the land/sea interface is where all the hard bits are that one would prefer to avoid. "Hugging the coast" is like embracing something spiky that might bite you. It's way better to spend your time out of harms way.

Ann

[Franziska]

Thanks to both! Good answers and a good thought for study from you Ann. Still have enough time for that homework.

[sy_gilana]

Hello Franziska. I would look at the pilot books, they have information not given in charts. I think NP67 is the one, West Coast of Spain and Portugal





A trip from Rotterdam to Gibraltar, for instance passes 52 miles West of Nazare. I agree with all the other comments, stand-off unless you really want to close to the coast. There is a marina in Nazare, so its possible. Incidentally, I have never been there, but, according to all the videos I have seen, it does not go massive there every day, and when it does, it looks a bit confined to a small area.


I too would not like to be in that surf, not on my boat, yours, or a jetski, maybe a helicopter...

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Franziska

So I am thinking, if I am completely new to an area and do not know about this and have only charts, .

If that's the case then hopefully you'll get away with it and never sail to a new area again without doing loads of research first!
Reeds or Cruising association alamanac cover it all down to Gib, lots info online, don't trust just charts as one source of info..
ANyway, not that bad down there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftok14M5p8g

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hey, just happened to look at the port of Nazare in Portugal on a set of Cm93 charts.
As it goes I know that North to the lighthouse there is a world famous surfspot.
Great for surf pros, surely not for a sailboat hugging the coast.

On the charts there seems to be no indication to this.
So I am thinking, if I am completely new to an area and do not know about this and have only charts, how do I avoid getting accidentally into something like this?

I know that it's prudent to keep a distance from shore. Still wondering though why there are no indications on the charts....

Also Nazare "going off" is maybe a once a year occurrence. A lot of these massive breaks are millponds 99.99% of the time. See Jaws for example

[roverhi]

Depth and long period swells meeting it make for surf. Fortunately, that is typically close to shore unless there is a bump in the ocean floor off shore. There are probably places like this but they aren't common. Looking at the pictures of the massive surf off Portugal and it looks like a shore break, impressive but still close to shore. Staying 5 miles or so offshore would probably get you safely through almost anywhere in the world. No need to sail any closer to the hard stuff unless you want to check out the topless babes on the beach or entering a port. The surf warning for the Columbia River mouth is an area where you get a strong outflow from the river against a tidal inflow and a rapidly shoaling bottom which makes for some interesting conditions. The surf warning is there because boats entering the Columbia River have to go through this. If it was just a stretch of coast with no inland navigable water way there probably woildn't be a notation on the chart.

[Snowpetrel]

The outside 30 meter contour is normally pretty safe from surf. But beware of any steep contours exposed to a big swell, even when much deeper than 30m.

Its the wavelength that effects how it interacts with shallow water. But other factors like subsea currents and internal waves can have nasty effects on the surface waves.

The waves may only break over a shallow patch once every hour. But that might be all it takes if you are in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sy_gilana

Hello Franziska. I would look at the pilot books, they have information not given in charts. I think NP67 is the one, West Coast of Spain and Portugal
.........

Another vote for reading the relevant Pilot book. I don't know if the Pilot mentions this particular case but in general, Pilot's give all the "extra" detail to keep the mariner safe.

It seems to me that many of us don't bother with the official Pilots and just use third party cruising guides.

Maybe the ignorance of Pilots is related to the increased use of electronic charts and plotters...