Bahamas, Things You Don't Need...

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

man people really get pissed out if everyone doesn't agree with their position the end what do people care what other do on their boat?

SB,
I'm not "pissed" and I'm not looking for adherents to my philosophy of sailing/cruising. I am, however, describing the sad reality I've encountered in many years of full-time cruising. I really don't care what others do on their boat and if you knew me, you would completely understand this fact. However, we have met many decent, sincere, cruisers with a dream that has been shattered and destroyed shortly after departure. It's almost never the "hippies" on a budget(excuse this antiquated term), but rather Ma and Pa on their Apollo spacecraft that not only won't make it to the moon, but will probably never leave the launching pad. Too much emphasis today is placed on "necessary" equipment and "perfect" boats for cruising. I am convinced a handy person could buy a boat for 10K, equip and recon the boat nicely for another 10K and happily live their dream. However, both people must want the dream . . . not just one. Go simple, go now. Captain Rognvald . . . avoiding the Herd at all costs.

[a64pilot]

We did without an AP first two years, now we were only vacationing as we worked full time but we did some decent distances Panama City to Key West etc.
Once we got that AP, life got a whole lot better, kids rated the AP as the best thing I ever put on the boat with the counter top ice maker second, none of all that other high dollar stuff meant anything. The AP meant no more constant steering with a following sea

[RTB]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Your idea of cruising is does not align with mine... Despite have those things... cruising is not a piece of cake.... you need to be smart and careful. These sorts of things make cruising easier and safer. You can haul your boat in 20 knots of wind and chain.... no thanks... a windlass makes for a more reliable anchoring experience and less strain on the body. I would NEVER cruise without a good AP... I have no intention of spending have my time stuck at the helm...

Do you need these wonderful devices? I do.. I wouldn't be sailing without them... and I have had 32 years to think about it.

I hear what you are saying. But, I don't need an autopilot to sail to the Bahamas. It's a day sail, with an overnighter or two thrown in. Personally, I enjoy being at the helm. How different is it from driving a car cross country? Well, it's sure a lot less demanding of attention being at my helm at 6 knots with nothing to avoid most of the time, than driving at 70 mph with many distractions and potential life ending decisions to make in the blink of an eye. So.....why the dread of steering your boat? It's not very physical work most of the time, and when things do get sporty, will your AP give up and put you to work doing what you hate?

The windlass thing - depends on the size of the boat and weight of the ground tackle. Personally hate the clank, clank, clank, as the new arrival drops anchor. You won't even hear me when I enter the anchorage. Same with leaving....you never know when I'm gone. And, I've noticed that we get the anchor up much quicker than many boats with windlasses. Keep in mind, we are typically anchored in less than 15 feet of water (Texas, Florida, Georgia, and Bahamas). 15' of 5/16 HT chain weighs about 15 pounds. The 35# Manson Supreme is not much of a burden either. Leaving an anchorage in windy conditions sucks if you have a windlass or not. The helmsman (helmswoman in my case) makes all the difference. Put me on top of my anchor, and we can leave!

The thing is that, once you add a windlass, an autopilot....and throw in refrigeration, things get much more demanding. That's when larger battery banks, and solar come in to play with making all the systems operate. Add a watermaker. Add an SSB. And so on.....

I know sandero does (or has done) long passages. This thread is about doing 50-60 mile days getting to the Bahamas. Then, most likely less than 15 mile days. It is not the same thing, and the requirements are different.

AIS and Radar - If you are at the helm ON "WATCH", you will probably notice any very large vessels near your path. Just avoid them. Pretty simple, right? You don't need to know the name of the huge ship to avoid them, and no need to converse with them.


Anyway....my ramblings pertain to sailboats up to36'. Go large, and pay up! Happy cruising!

Ralph

[windhorze]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

counter top ice maker second

ok you've got this minimalist's attention...even I like a cold beer and schlepping overpriced ice is for the birds...

which brand did you buy???

[RTB]

Originally Posted by rognvald

I am convinced a handy person could buy a boat for 10K, equip and recon the boat nicely for another 10K and happily live their dream. However, both people must want the dream . . . not just one. Go simple, go now. Captain Rognvald . . . avoiding the Herd at all costs.

Exactly! A little over budget here, but paid $20K for our boat 8 years ago, and spent another 10K getting ready to go. Texas to the Keys to the Bahamas to Georgia. Back to the Bahamas, back to Texas. Back to Georgia. The only boat repair we made was replacing a leaking fuel boost pump. Keep things simple, and there isn't much to break.

The boat is getting older, so time to spend some money now. But, it's been a very inexpensive way of life thus far, and we have loved and enjoyed the journey. Our dreams have been realized over, and over, and over again.

Ralph

[ramblinrod]

Holy smokes people get awful sensitive if anyone suggests they don't need all the crap they have to be happy.

Safety is a relative term. I have seen countless instances where boaters have taken a perfectly safe vessel and made it incredibly unsafe with the improper addition of must have equipment.

For those taking offence with the OP, the "you" was likely meant to mean the "average boater", rather than "you" personally. Some armchair internet sailors need to chill.

[sailorboy1]

I've been here on CF longer enough to have seen the switch from go simple without all the "stuff" to the new "buy all the stuff" to be safe etc. I still think that it is best to go cruising without the "stuff" and see if you really "need" it.

Take the saved money and increase your monthly budget to allow other things, like eating out and sight seeing

[dwedeking2]

My original plan was to buy a project boat, get it fixed up to pristine condition before sailing off in 8 years into the sunset.

After living and sailing on the boat for over a year, there are some critical systems I will repair/replace but my original plan has changed to building a cash reserve and being prepared to take off if my employment status changes on short notice. I could buy supplies (paint, flooring, etc) and do a lot of "fixing up" while located somewhere more exotic.

There were a lot of things that before seemed "must haves" that changed to "would make it easier". That first day sail into the Atlantic where it hit me, "if I had more food and water I could be at an island in a few days" really changed things for me.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Cash. My point precisely.

My wife and I had a great time without any of that stuff on the list except for a reefer and a modest battery bank. We weren't in any way roughing it. Had plenty of money to do whatever we wanted. Stayed in a marina whenever we felt like it. Went out to eat whenever we wanted. Ate whatever we wanted. Made side trips. Hosted some guests and payed all their expenses while on the boat. Invited lots of other cruisers over for dinner. Bought all the $50/case beer we could drink.

Remember that there are lots of folks that have all those things that you feel you don't need and still enjoy all the experiences you had. While I agree that most of those items are not required, we require more comfort. We enjoy having lots of frozen food to choose from. We enjoy unlimited long showers and being able to wash all our equipment with fresh water every day (no WM yet but coming) and so forth.

Sailing is about our enjoyment and those things on the list help us enjoy life and feel/be safer in (or out of) the Bahamas.

Originally Posted by Delancey

Meanwhile, the marina queens are busy making sure their boats have everything armchair experts say you must have to go cruising while at the same time they're getting older. Then their heath fails so they end up going nowhere in their fully equipped boat when they could have been out there sailing without all that stuff. Met a guy like that sailing solo after his wife died that year. Really sad. He was ready to head back to the states and sell the boat and give up. Without his wife it just wasn't as fun as he had dreamed.

What does everything on my little list of things you don't need cost? $20k? $30k? More? Keep that money in the bank.

There is truth to this but not all boats are marina queens for the reasons you specify. Don't assume that if you spend a lot of time in marinas that its because they are working on their boat. We have spent a lot of marina time this last few years because we are trying to save as much money as possible before we head out and we would like the option of never returning to work. Being on the hook instead of a marina can be downright dangerous during the summer in Florida - my wife suffered severe dehydration and heat exhaustion which resulted in her being hospitalized two years ago.

Originally Posted by Delancey

Purified drinking water can be had in Nassau at $5 for five gallons or $2 a gallon in the out islands. How much water are you going to drink? Or maybe a better question is how much water do you have to drink before that water maker starts to pay for itself? How are you powering it and how much does that cost you? Hope you're thirsty.

City water at a marina in Nassau is free, at a marina in the out islands RO water is $0.40 a gallon, at some of the settlements it's free. Over +110 day period we filled up our tanks for doing dishes and taking showers like five times, so five hundred gallons. That plus max half gallon per day drinking between the two of us. Usually less. All told we paid less than $200 for drinking and tank water and never were thirsty or dirty. How much did you say that water maker/solar panel/battery bank/generator set up cost again?

Sometimes the water doesn't run for weeks as a time on some of the out islands. Also, when you are using 40+ to gallons a day to drink, cook, shower, and clean the boat, a water maker cost pays for itself very quickly. Especially if you have a large family.

Originally Posted by Delancey

AIS? Radar? Here's a thought, pick your weather and cross the Gulf Stream in favorable conditions. Guess what? You just saved, I don't know, at least $4-5K? Is that stupid?

Stupid is crossing the Gulf Stream in conditions that require AIS, radar, storm sails, or a life raft when you could just wait for better weather. Stupid is dragging three hundred feet of chain you will never use around with you in the Bahamas where, if you play your cards right, you never have to anchor in more than 6 to 10 feet of beautiful white sand. Stupid is anchoring in coral heads in the Bahamas. If you're anchoring in coral heads in the Bahamas you're doing it wrong. Very wrong.

AIS and Radar have little to do with weather - they make it easier to be safe. They are safety items. I've sailed with and without Radar and AIS at night and I know from experience how much I appreciate those tools when you don't have them anymore. Are the required? Of course not but since we can afford them - why not? When we did our last Bahamas crossing, we were very thankful for having the AIS as we were in a major crossing area for half the night with big ships moving at 20+ knots.

Originally Posted by Delancey

Frankly, I sometimes wonder if people who feel like they have to have things like radar and all chain to feel comfortable going to the Bahamas wouldn't be better off investing in some sailing classes to develop some better seamanship skills. You know, learn some stuff about things like navigation, weather forecasting, how to pick an anchorage, etc.

We go to a lot of other places in our boat and its so equipped to handle a range of issues that come up in a variety of places. Other things are just pure convenience.

[SV.Maverick]

I agree with everything the OP said, however I already have most of those things on the boat now. What will determine if they are a need for me is if I bother to repair them if they break.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

For those taking offence with the OP, the "you" was likely meant to mean the "average boater", rather than "you" personally. Some armchair internet sailors need to chill.

Thanks for the reality check on that. Amazing how some narcissistic people can think everything is about them when it's not.

The OP wasn't intended for those who know what they want or to disparage those who already have what they don't need. It was for the newbies who are second guessing themselves after they read all the armchair banter.

Not everyone wants to cross an ocean or battle fierce gales (the way some people talk around here, it's like you have to do that to prove yourself a true sailor. Been there done that. No thanks. In the words of the venerable MarkJ " make the right passage in the right season." Duh! Gales are for stupid people or delivery crews in my opinion).

Some just want to go to the Bahamas and have a good time and unfortunately don't have an armchair budget to do so.

For those people, you don't need all that stuff.

All you need is a seaworthy boat and a sense of adventure, the rest will work self out. Have fun while you are there. Don't miss Shroud Cay. It's my fav! The south tidal creeks are closed to motors per Exumas Land Sea Park rules, SUP or kayak or row your dink from the anchorage on the west side to the beach on the Exuma Sound side. Amazing! If you're lucky you will have it to yourself. Hopefully you won't have to wait until you are 55 to get there.

Xoxo,
del

[CaptsWife]

Originally Posted by RTB

I hear what you are saying. But, I don't need an autopilot to sail to the Bahamas. It's a day sail, with an overnighter or two thrown in. Personally, I enjoy being at the helm. How different is it from driving a car cross country? Well, it's sure a lot less demanding of attention being at my helm at 6 knots with nothing to avoid most of the time, than driving at 70 mph with many distractions and potential life ending decisions to make in the blink of an eye. So.....why the dread of steering your boat? It's not very physical work most of the time, and when things do get sporty, will your AP give up and put you to work doing what you hate?

The windlass thing - depends on the size of the boat and weight of the ground tackle. Personally hate the clank, clank, clank, as the new arrival drops anchor. You won't even hear me when I enter the anchorage. Same with leaving....you never know when I'm gone. And, I've noticed that we get the anchor up much quicker than many boats with windlasses. Keep in mind, we are typically anchored in less than 15 feet of water (Texas, Florida, Georgia, and Bahamas). 15' of 5/16 HT chain weighs about 15 pounds. The 35# Manson Supreme is not much of a burden either. Leaving an anchorage in windy conditions sucks if you have a windlass or not. The helmsman (helmswoman in my case) makes all the difference. Put me on top of my anchor, and we can leave!

The thing is that, once you add a windlass, an autopilot....and throw in refrigeration, things get much more demanding. That's when larger battery banks, and solar come in to play with making all the systems operate. Add a watermaker. Add an SSB. And so on.....

I know sandero does (or has done) long passages. This thread is about doing 50-60 mile days getting to the Bahamas. Then, most likely less than 15 mile days. It is not the same thing, and the requirements are different.

AIS and Radar - If you are at the helm ON "WATCH", you will probably notice any very large vessels near your path. Just avoid them. Pretty simple, right? You don't need to know the name of the huge ship to avoid them, and no need to converse with them.


Anyway....my ramblings pertain to sailboats up to36'. Go large, and pay up! Happy cruising!

Ralph

Thanks for this, Ralph. Good post.

[nautical62]

I purchased my first boat for 11K and cruised the Bahamas for many months over many cruises the 7 or so years I owned that boat. I had no solar, no refridgeration, no furling, no windlass, no dingy outboard, no radar or AIS, no oven, no cell phone. When my inboard bit the dust I continued my cruise under sail. My future cruises (in that boat) were with an outboard.

I think the productive take away from this thread is that while there are more nice cruising conveniences than ever before, one can still cruise the Bahamas from the U.S. without all these conveniences if one is on a budget. There are in fact many wannabe cruisers who never leave the dock, always convinced they need to do more and more outfitting.

There are people who row across oceans after all.

[Delancey]

Why do I even care? The world is changing. It always has been. Why does this matter?

There is a HUGE marina development opening soon at the south end of Normans Cay, just three and a half miles from Shroud Cay. When I was there the marina was completely dredged and they were working on the cut. The runway that used to service drug planes has already been lengthened to accommodate JET airplanes. I have friend who used to ride dirt bikes on the runway. Now there is a tall barbed wire fence.

If you wait until you are 55 or whatever, you will not find an amazing beach all to yourself at the end of the tidal creeks at Shroud Cay. You will find a bunch of noisy jet skis breaking park rules and an anchorage even more overrun with mega yachts than it already is.

That's it. Go now. Go while you can. You don't need an AIS or a watermaker or whatever to get there. The marina is opening as fast as they can to make as much money as they can as soon as possible. The Exumas are changing now more than ever, not in a good way. Shroud Cay will never be the same

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixf5Uy1-2T0

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Go now. Go while you can. Shroud Cay will never be the same.

Amen.