Best keel type for offshore trip

[CarlF]

As an older singlehander, I would focus on ease of sail handling and safety in all weather more than keel shape

For that I would pick a ketch

The smaller sails on a ketch plus the ability to sail jib and jigger makes everything easier. Winch loads are smaller. Sails are smaller and lighter. Mast height is lower.

The ketch also allows setting a mizzen staysail. Asymetrical spinnakers or spinakers are not a good choice for an older single hander.

I'd look at a Shannon 37 or 38. They come with an encapsulated full keel and incredibly strong skeg mounted rudder. Tracks incredibly well. You can take your hand off the wheel and she'll just keep going straight. Built like a brick outhouse.

Many have circumnavigated multiple times.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/197...ketch-9034356/

[Cavalier MK2]

You need some alternatives.... toss out the idea of a keel, what you need is a centerboard! Yes, attached to a nice cutter rigged Searunner trimaran. Offshore? Yes! Upwind? Yes! Grounding? Raise the board! Drying out? Yes! Windvane self steering? Yes! Unsinkable? Yes!

Thank me later, check out the multihulls section, not rolling downwind and higher speeds are free.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by dlj

I'm currently sailing a fin keel, partial skeg hung rudder boat offshore. I draw just under 6 feet. I can't imagine that a full keel boat would have given me any advantages - I've skirted two hurricanes and some other feisty weather and the boat has handled it beautifully.

I think the best advice is when you are looking, find the boat with the best setup and don't worry about the keel type. If you find a full keel boat that is beautifully laid out, go for it. If you find a fin keel with skeg hung rudder that is beautifully laid out, go for it....

In short - get the best condition boat you can find at the time within your budget.

dj

After reading John Kretschmers 'Sailing Serious Oceans" who has tens of thousands of ocean miles under his belt, this seems to have been his approach. When i was thinking of purchasing my first boat and asked similar questions, the responses i got where that the sailor matters more than the boat. Now after owning my boat and having So much more knowledge and experience years later, i finally understand what this meant. A boat just needs to be well built and safe. The rest is up to the sailor...

[carstenb]

First - We have a Jeanneau Fin Keel, Spade Rudder performance version of the Sun Odyssey. We have used an wind vane">Aries wind vane for our ocean crossings without any issues.

If you are going to Alaska via the Inland Waterway - forget the sails, most of the time you will be motoring. The main issue up north is hitting logs, ice etc.

Most consider our boat a lively boat, but we're used to it and we enjoy her speed and maneuverability.

In the end, realize that when you go serious cruising, 85% of the time you will be at anchor. Only 15% of the time (or less) will you be sailing. Buy your boat with the 85% in mind

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I am also not keen on a full keel as I want to go upwind. So thinking a shallower fin with skeg-hung rudder is best.

This made me think you were describing a Peterson 44, which is one that I would choose based on my one experience sailing one years ago upwind in about 25 knots. It was great!

[TeddyDiver]

There's no simple answer.. My 10c: if you do marina to marina fin keel excels handling in tight spaces/Outside facilities you can run a long keeler on the shore wait for the tide to turn and do any work needed for the boat, if not else but clean the bottom. Also safer to anchor in remote and poorly charte waters. Sailing offshore depends if you have good self steering, windvane or autopilot pref both but don't forget the power demands for autopilot. If not long keeler is better tracking. How easy it'handle sails? deploy dinghy (often not thought at all)? Place for solar panels? And much more things more essential than keel shape..

[Kettlewell]

Since you will be singlehanding mostly that is where you should start thinking about things. For example, many boats are set up for sailing with a full crew. The sheet winches are way forward, and widely separated, making it difficult to tack by yourself. Another problem is the wheel is often way aft, miles from the cabin and the sheet winches, often meaning you don't have much shelter back there and it is harder to do things like keep an eye on a boiling kettle. Can you see the chartplotter, the radar, the depthsounder, the engine gauges, etc.? Many boats can be rearranged somewhat to make single handing easier, but there are some boats that are inherently better for this.

[shrspeedblade]

Based on what I read in this thread, probably the best thing you can do is lots of reading outside an internet forum from people who have a wealth of experience. Not that there isn't a wealth of experience on this forum, it's a reason I enjoy reading it, but you will naturally get a skewed survivorship bias from people who 'never had a problem'! John Kretschmer, Pardeys, etc. are some examples I've enjoyed reading, you'll learn a lot even if you don't take their advice.

My opinion: what you describe is almost entirely coastal or near coastal sailing, so just find something you like that's been well cared for. However, I just have to add that some full keel designs sail to weather quite well, thank you very much, and even better than some fin keel designs. My Nor'West 33 outpointed (not by a lot, but it did) a Dufour 30 I raced on and the amount of leeway was dramatically different. Design, design, design.

[NorthCoastJoe]

On our new aluminium we have a mix. Our boat has a stub keel with the centerboard and all lead ballast tucked inside it the keel. The center board is a slab of aluminum 40mm thick.With the board up we need 1.1 meters of water with the board down we have a 3 meter bite. Our thoughts were about getting into shallows and not being tide locked like we frequently are in the SF bay. Just picture a 44' boat pulling up to Sams in Tiburon at low tide, we cannot do that in the Pearson 30.

The rudder is a spade with a very stout shaft all aluminum and rod steering.
The rig is a solent rig.

In time we will know more about how this works out.

[Tortuga's Lie]

It may be noted that many of today's manufacturers of "blue-water" boats like Oyster, Hallberg-Rassy, Hylas, Outbound and probably many more, are all producing boats with fin keels and spade rudders. My Tartan has a underbody exactly like the Outbound and even though I haven't had time to cross oceans yet (still working), I wouldn't hesitate for I know my boat and how it is constructed (with a couple of upgrades) and that's the most important aspect: a well built boat.
If I were to cruise the Arctic where icebergs would be an issue, perhaps a cut-away full keel would be a good idea (like a Baba 40), or a steel boat, but that's not in my plans. So cruising areas play a big part of the decision as well.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by shrspeedblade

However, I just have to add that some full keel designs sail to weather quite well, thank you very much, and even better than some fin keel designs. My Nor'West 33 outpointed (not by a lot, but it did) a Dufour 30 I raced on and the amount of leeway was dramatically different. Design, design, design.

Ah yes, your Nor'West was famous back in the day for whatever the mysterious alchemy is that it possesses! If I found one of those, I would face temptation...

[Happ]

Originally Posted by psk125

Sounds like you've already made up your mind. What you need are boat suggestions that track well and work with windvane steering. Don't think Leo Sampson would sell you Tally Ho, but perhaps something like that would be good. Windvanes are difficult to mount on double-enders, so you'll want something with a transom. The heavy displacements of full-keel boats may make moving in the light air typical of the Alaskan summer very slow and frustrating. Make sure you have a hefty engine and enjoy using it. My brother took his J/30 - an agile and lightweight boat - from Seattle to Juneau and ended up powering most of the way because the wind was too light to keep him moving.

Double Enders are no problem. Cape Horn makes a Wind Vane specifically for Double Enders. The difference in cost is less than 4 meals at McDonalds.

[Happ]

To me the issue is comfort on a long passage. A full keel will get you there comfortably. They plow through the water. Instead of a flat under belly that will slap the water as in modern fin keels. You can get full keels with a cut away forward section. This makes the boat easier to turn getting in and out of slips. I like full keels because they are part of the hull. No keel bolts. If you think you are going to be cruising in the Bahamas or Florida Keys you don’t want to have a draft more than 5’. If you are going to be in areas of coral the grounding a full keel has a better chance of minimal damage then a fin.

[Greg K]

On the PNW coast the biggest danger to your boat will be logs, especially if you're single handing and can't keep a constant watch. An encapsulated traditional full keel with attached rudder and a cutaway forefoot with simply ride up on a floating log and either spit it out the rear end or roll over to her side and fall off it without causing any damage to the keel, rudder or prop. That is the most compelling reason for going with a fell keel in that cruising area.


Back in the 90's I sailed an Alberg 30 out of Vancouver and hitting floating logs was a regular occurrence. Never any serious problem.


Repairing floating log damaged fin-keeler's used to be, and probably continues to be, the bread and butter of PNW boatyards.

[Andrew Lippman]

Agree with SailingHarry. A well-balanced rudder is easy to sail and maneuverable. Nimble but not hard to keep in a groove.