Best keel type for offshore trip

[Tortuga's Lie]

Originally Posted by MJH

I agree that a sailboat is a sum of its parts...its overall design. There is an area between full keel and fin keel, the long fin.

My Tayana Vancouver 42 is a true cutter rig (mast is further aft than a sloop would be), has the long fin, and skeg. With a Monitor windvane I've sailed her solo across the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska (return solo), and Hawaii round trip with crew. On the Hawaii trip we hove-to over and on the return and she did so very well. She is a very comfortable boat in the worst of conditions. In all the conditions encountered, I never felt concerned about the boat's capability.

Before putting your money down do yourself a favor and compare the significant ratios of the boats you are considering for your expected use and waters...learn what you are buying, its COMFORT, and CAPSIZE ratios. I spent five years researching sailboats and built a database of over 3,000 boats in available rig configurations, then sorted for my priorities...I learned a lot. You can use Sail Calculator Pro or sailboatdata.com to make your research easier.

Good Luck.

I looked at the Vancouver 42 years ago when shopping, was real impressed with the robust nature of the boat however, on this particular boat, the iron encapsulated ballast had water penetration and was in the processing of blowing out the fiberglass because of the build-up of rust. I guess this can be addressed but it was enough of a project to scare me off. Don't mean to bash your boat choice, just relaying my experience with one and something to keep an eye on.

[massnspace]

Thanks to all who responded. I am still researching and thinking about this issue.

David
Seattle

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie

I looked at the Vancouver 42 years ago when shopping, was real impressed with the robust nature of the boat however, on this particular boat, the iron encapsulated ballast had water penetration and was in the processing of blowing out the fiberglass because of the build-up of rust. I guess this can be addressed but it was enough of a project to scare me off. Don't mean to bash your boat choice, just relaying my experience with one and something to keep an eye on.

That is a statement sometimes made of encapsulated keels but your experience is the first I have read of someone who actually saw such an occurrence. I understand the logic but the actual witnesses of the same are hard to find. Furthermore, if such an event can occur I would speculate that the use of cast iron punches versus a solid block of iron would have more room for expansion due to all the voids present. Compared to the number of sailboats that have been written about losing their fin keels the probability appears pretty slim.

[Jim Cate]

Compared to the number of sailboats that have been written about losing their fin keels the probability appears pretty slim.

When you consider the overwhelming majority of numbers of bolt-ons over encapsulated, this comparison is not statistically supported.

In reality, considering the huge number of bolt-on keels, including a LOT of lower price-point models, the number of actual failures is pretty damn small. When one does come off it tends to raise a lot of attention, speculation and criticism of the genre.

IMO the critical factor is adequacy of design and construction, not the style of keel that matters. There are examples of both ends of the spectrum to be found out at sea. Seems that most of them have the same number of departures and arrivals!

Jim

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

In reality, considering the huge number of bolt-on keels, including a LOT of lower price-point models, the number of actual failures is pretty damn small. When one does come off it tends to raise a lot of attention, speculation and criticism of the genre. Jim

True enough.
Regarding the "boiler punchings". I have observed that being done.
The punchings are poured-in, a quantity of resin is poured over them, and then the whole works is glassed over.
The failure rate is very small, and has generally happened on boats that, (as you mentioned,) needed more "engineering", as it were.
It seems the most common damage to fins is not the fins but to the hull/web structures, at least in the cheaper boats you just can't hit anything with them. You hit a rock going along at a decent speed and you might turn the boat into a write-off, busted loose internal webs and damage to the hull are not uncommon.
I do believe that part of the issue is the fastening/bolting of many fins.
Having only a few large bolts can be well able to carry the load, but no matter what kind of web structure you build those few bolts still transfer the impact into a few small areas.
Here in the PNW, Cascades are popular boats, they have a wide flange at the top of the fin and use a multitude of smaller bolts that run down the flange on each side of the fin.
It's a superb method, and any impact is spread-out across a larger area.
Another real plus, all of the bolts can be replaced as they are not buried in the casting, and you don't have to drop the keel, (I call that real engineering).

[Don C L]

This thread may be of interest:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...sion-2930.html

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie

It may be noted that many of today's manufacturers of "blue-water" boats like Oyster, Hallberg-Rassy, Hylas, Outbound and probably many more, are all producing boats with fin keels and spade rudders.

So is anyone still making long keeled yachts above say 30 feet?

Bilge keels nearly went the same way as the dinosaurs too, but the French have created a bit of a renaissance for them starting with RM yachts and Pogo following with a performance lifting keel. So it is possible to dry out on a beach and have good close quarter handling. Handy in a tight marina, lock or busy channel.

Pete

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Pete7

So is anyone still making long keeled yachts above say 30 feet?

There's Island Packet, but I don't know of much else at this point.