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Group9 · 18-07-2019, 06:09

I always have thought that the most important thing is to have a plan, based on your abilities, skills, and knowledge. Obviously those traits are going to vary tremendously from person to person based on their life history. (It’s crazy to expect a retired school teacher to fight it out with boarders, much less crazy for an ex- Army Ranger to try and do so). You can’t expect to become something you are not, or to do something you don’t know how to do).

But, one thing for sure. Hoping really hard that nothing bad happens, is not a plan.

On the other hand, I’m so sorry to see this happen to the Seatramp crew. I follow them on YouTube. With all the YouTubers sailing in sketchy areas, I had been wondering how long it would be before something like this happened.

jmh2002 · 18-07-2019, 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There are pepper sprays that are gel like and often are dyed to identify the person sprayed, with the gel there is no aerosol to worry about drifting on you.

However if you spray someone they don’t just disappear and you will have a very ticked off person to deal with and the confrontation has just become violent, so think about what your going to do after you spray someone, before you do.

Yes all good points that need to be considered and of course the pepper spray should be viewed the last resort of self defence, relative to the circumstances.

But at least unlike shooting someone with a firearm there is in general no lasting side effect from the pepper spray. As others have mentioned here, even with a firearm, do they really want to kill or seriously injure someone? And in this case too, the person doesn't just go away after either, in fact you may now have quite a mess out on deck. And do you now administer first aid (rhetorical question, no reply needed)?

So the goal really seems to be to incapacitate the attacker.

Probably a good idea to undergo some training with this gear too, no different to doing an offshore medical course or other similar training. Learn, be prepared, and know what to do in an emergency (of whatever type).

jmh2002 · 18-07-2019, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9

I always have thought that the most important thing is to have a plan, based on your abilities, skills, and knowledge. Obviously those traits are going to vary tremendously from person to person based on their life history. (It’s crazy to expect a retired school teacher to fight it out with boarders, much less crazy for an ex- Army Ranger to try and do so). You can’t expect to become something you are not, or to do something you don’t know how to do).

But, one thing for sure. Hoping really hard that nothing bad happens, is not a plan.

Totally correct, hence my previous summary of things that are reasonably achievable by most people.

But after the posts from yourself and and a64pilot I'm going to add planning and training to the summary list too.

On bigger vessels it's normal but why not small pleasure vessels too?

As I said, in general cruisers plan and train (or should!) for medical emergencies, for storm tactics, for man overboard, for systems failure (no cold beer = serious emergency for a lot of cruisers

) and so maybe it's about time cruisers started planning and training for unwanted boarding too.

denverd0n · 18-07-2019, 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9

But, one thing for sure. Hoping really hard that nothing bad happens, is not a plan.

Made me laugh. Made me think of a sex education film I saw when I was in my teens (some 40+ years ago!). The title was "Hope is Not a Method."

The point, of course, was that (at least, at that time, probably still) one of the most common forms of "birth control" that teenagers use is simply to hope that she won't get pregnant. But simply hoping is definitely NOT a birth control method!

Just like simply hoping is definitely NOT a self-defense method! Some people don't like to think about unpleasant things, though, and preparing for them requires quite a lot of thinking about it. So they go with the "ignorance is bliss" approach, and simply hope that bad things won't happen.

I prefer to give it some thought, and (maybe it's the Boy Scout in me) "be prepared." To each his own, though. If you prefer to use hope as your method, don't be surprised if that doesn't work out too well for you.

Group9 · 18-07-2019, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Made me laugh. Made me think of a sex education film I saw when I was in my teens (some 40+ years ago!). The title was "Hope is Not a Method."

The point, of course, was that (at least, at that time, probably still) one of the most common forms of "birth control" that teenagers use is simply to hope that she won't get pregnant. But simply hoping is definitely NOT a birth control method!

Just like simply hoping is definitely NOT a self-defense method! Some people don't like to think about unpleasant things, though, and preparing for them requires quite a lot of thinking about it. So they go with the "ignorance is bliss" approach, and simply hope that bad things won't happen.

I prefer to give it some thought, and (maybe it's the Boy Scout in me) "be prepared." To each his own, though. If you prefer to use hope as your method, don't be surprised if that doesn't work out too well for you.

Hope is not a plan! Much more succinct way to say it! Thanks!

I was a Boy Scout, too. “Be prepared” was the best life lesson I ever got. It has served me well, in a lot of potentially life threatening situations over the years.

**boatman61** · 18-07-2019, 07:23

To my mind the cruiser sailing to known danger zones is as daft as the guy not wanting to sail anywhere without his guns..
There seems to remain this arrogant "White Mans Right" to sail where ever they choose regardless of others perceived rights..
Then they cry when they end up in trouble, or dead like the idiot in the Andamans..
Best way to stay safe is dont push the envelope, ignorance is a poor excuse.

Group9 · 18-07-2019, 07:33

I think hearing the news that the Panamanian Coast Guard base, only three miles away, heard the call and didn’t bother to respond might be a wake up call to those used to the idea of an immediate police response when at home.

jmh2002 · 18-07-2019, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9

I think hearing the news that the Panamanian Coast Guard base, only three miles away, heard the call and didn’t bother to respond might be a wake up call to those used to the idea of an immediate police response when at home.

Having personally been in a situation where it was necessary to issue a real mayday call - engine room fire, aluminium boat, very not good... and having nobody respond, I know the feeling and it is not pleasant...

But I have also based my thinking on the presumption that when at sea nobody is coming to help, or if they are, it will be probably be too late.

In our case it was maybe 1 minute from fun to fire, but we were very lucky, very very lucky (some people call it well prepared). We had done an engine room fire drill only a week before, and via sat phone (we were in a remote location, and whilst there were other vessels in the area it seems that a vhf call was useless), another yacht finally answered our call and sent help, serious help. They travelled over 5nm to help us, for which we were very thankful.

So the lesson is two fold:

- practice and be ready to help yourself, no matter what the situation and no matter where you are - we trained especially on the basis that 'nobody was coming to help us' and although we had our situation mostly under control, it was still a huge relief when we saw help appear over the horizon.

- on the same basis, always be prepared and ready to help others no matter how big or small you are. Even the moral support can be useful, but be ready to provide all help that you can.

Rendering assistance to others is the obligation of everyone that goes to sea.

But don't count on it, even from the authorities, and especially in non first world countries where you don't even need to be off the beaten track to be ignored or forgotten.

I think the same thoughts can apply to cruising security too.

Hardhead · 18-07-2019, 11:31

If there's any interest - and you've read this thread, please also consider responding to the newer poll here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ll-220986.html

If everyone responds (even in the negative) we can get a relative idea how common any of this really is, as well as a few other details.

Again, I have no idea how to spell dinghy most of the time.

AJ-SeaChange · 22-07-2019, 06:39

The statistics of your poll are skewed in terms of % because you do not include the options of "who has never been boarded" or "who has never been stolen from"

If you included those two options then it would put into perspective how often or not often the bad stuff happens.

daletournier · 22-07-2019, 06:42

7 boat break ins at Hogs Bay Grenada over the weekend. No violence,all unoccupied boats.

az_r2d1 · 22-07-2019, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtmf

flare guns or flares in general. It would be terrible top accidentally spill boiling oil from cooking all over them. not to mention all the soap knives in the galley.

boiling oil and flare guns. An EXCELLENT way to brun down your own boat ! kudos to you for the excellent idea !!

Tom and Maje · 22-07-2019, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc1

Security on board is no different from security at home.
The boarding is done by surprise at night therefore the first defence is an alarm system that deploys when they board. Lights going off outside and even a sound alarm.
Second, bar the entrance with a cross bar you take off in the morning.

The weapons of choice can only be the one you are familiar and trained to use in a stressful situation. If you think it is easy to stab someone with a sword or hit with a machete when you have never done it, think again. And flares have one shot, erratic direction and only to be used outside.
There is no substitute to a shotgun. have it loaded with non lethal shots like rock salt or rubber, and hope you never need to use it. And if everything fails and they get into your cabin at night, your pussifooting around gun ownership may cost you your life and the life of your family. A hidden handgun even if only a 22, 45 is my choice, is the only thing to have by your bedside if you are in the wilderness out there.

How did you get your rifle into the foreign country?

Maje

torgersende · 22-07-2019, 07:16

Can the poll be updated to include the response:
"Never boarded."

My wife and I have fortunately never been boarded in the 5 years we have sailed the waters of 26 countries in the Caribbean, South, and Central America.

I suspect that that the "Never boarded" option will account for much greater than 90% of the responses. While safety and security are always a concern, all potential scenarios should be addressed in a risk management fashion, weighing the likelihood, as well as the potential impact.

David Torgersen
S/V sans clés

Currently laying Zihuatanejo/Ixtapa Mexico.