Boarded with bad intentions?

[Hardhead]

A quick off topic story. About 15 years ago, I had a good friend who owned a neighborhood bar with his wife. They were in the back some afternoon, counting money, and 2 armed robbers came in. The wife later actually complained about "what a wimp" her husband was, as he just did what they commanded. Evidently, the wife expected some action hero type antics, in real life. As it was, they both came through unscathed.

It was the beginning of the end for the marriage, and they eventually got divorced. The only moral of the story is - it's good to discuss your views on armed robberies with your spouse ahead of time.

[Mush]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

One thing to consider, which has been mentioned before - is the perverse effect if you attempt to draw a weapon on a thief or attacker.

At the initial moment in time, you are vulnerable to whatever the other plans to do. Once you introduce a weapon, the other begins to fear for his life, and acts accordingly.

It can lead to a violent attack back, that never otherwise would have came, and the person killed may be the family member standing next to you, and not you. You may be more damned if you do, than if you don't.

No one knows what will happen in the beginning - and you have to quickly judge what you want to do.

I would rather be sitting in a HELL HOLE CELL in some crappy country then have one of my Mates raped. If you have boarded my vessel I am considering you as a threat ..... and you are leaving dead or alive.

There are steps you take after you have defended your vessel that help protect you under maritime law .... but first you clear your desks!!!

[Dave9111]

Assuming that you have a locking companionway while you sleep, what you need to add is a siren and strobe light to your cockpit area.


Install a toggle switch on the cabin interior with a safety cover so it can't be switched on accidentally. If you wake at night and hear feet on your deck, turn on the switch for 5-8 seconds and let the siren wail. Then turn it off and listen for escaping would be thieves. If you hear people departing, hit the switch again ( you are still down below, safe ). After several more seconds, investigate and expect to see departing thieves.

A possibly dangerous encounter has been avoided.



This is a cheap one. The true police/ambulance grade devices cost more and some are really, really loud!

https://www.amazon.com/POTTER-ELECTR...ustomerReviews


Another idea which as been glossed over is to keep a short barrel 18" pump shotgun down below. (Assuming you are someplace where such a thing is legal) Load the shotgun with two #4 Birdshot loads (Lethal at short range) and two less than lethal rubber ball loads or bean bag loads.

The first two shots will either scare off an attack, and if you need to get into the last two shots they will have much more severe impact. Chances are you might fire one shot, and the less than lethal shot is not likely to kill the perpetrator.

[Mush]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

Assuming that you have a locking companionway while you sleep, what you need to add is a siren and strobe light to your cockpit area.


Install a toggle switch on the cabin interior with a safety cover so it can't be switched on accidentally. If you wake at night and hear feet on your deck, turn on the switch for 5-8 seconds and let the siren wail. Then turn it off and listen for escaping would be thieves. If you hear people departing, hit the switch again ( you are still down below, safe ). After several more seconds, investigate and expect to see departing thieves.

A possibly dangerous encounter has been avoided.



This is a cheap one. The true police/ambulance grade devices cost more and some are really, really loud!

https://www.amazon.com/POTTER-ELECTR...ustomerReviews


Another idea which as been glossed over is to keep a short barrel 18" pump shotgun down below. (Assuming you are someplace where such a thing is legal) Load the shotgun with two #4 Birdshot loads (Lethal at short range) and two less than lethal rubber ball loads or bean bag loads.

The first two shots will either scare off an attack, and if you need to get into the last two shots they will have much more severe impact. Chances are you might fire one shot, and the less than lethal shot is not likely to kill the perpetrator.

Assuming your shotgun is not confiscated the first time you are boarded for inspection outside U.S waters .... Are you the one who will fix the hole in your vessel from your #4 bird shot yourself? or will you take the time to open a porthole and fire out that as the pirates come down into your house?
You will be deaf from the noise of the round fired in close quarters ... which i guess will be helpful as you won't be able to hear the screams of your Mates .... lets be honest .... no one likes to hear their Mates scream.

[jmh2002]

After the last few posts I'm starting to think that I wasted my time writing the summary on the previous page... http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2937313 Unfortunately it seems common to reply to threads here without actually reading any of the previous posts.

[Dave9111]

Originally Posted by Mush

Assuming your shotgun is not confiscated the first time you are boarded for inspection outside U.S waters .... Are you the one who will fix the hole in your vessel from your #4 bird shot yourself? or will you take the time to open a porthole and fire out that as the pirates come down into your house?
You will be deaf from the noise of the round fired in close quarters ... which i guess will be helpful as you won't be able to hear the screams of your Mates .... lets be honest .... no one likes to hear their Mates scream.

I wrote: (Assuming you are someplace where such a thing is legal)



So apparently... not too good at reading? And my guess is that you fear guns. Yes, my mate would be screaming as someone enters the companionway. She would also be screaming as the perp goes down.



But it sounds like you value your fiberglass over you and your mates life? I don't understand that. I can buy another boat.



Less than lethal loads are typically subsonic (look it up). If I need to get past the first two rounds of less than lethal shells, the boat will be the least of my concern. Although unknown by many city dwellers and suburbanites ( I was one ), shotguns are frequently used in the country. They are about as common as shovels out here, actually more so. Raccoons are very hard to handle around the barn with your bare hands. In fact they will chew through a wire live trap given some time. Yeah, I know they look cute, but they love to chew on chickens, pups, and kittens. Shotguns slow them down for easier handling. Same with Ground Hogs, Skunks, and other varmints. I've taken 8 or 9 Raccoons out the barn so far this year. So I know how to handle a shotgun. #4 Birdshot will make your ears ring for a little while, but you will be alive, and the other guy will be a bloody mess. BTW, if I didn't get the Raccoons out of the barn, my mate would be screaming at ME!

[Hardhead]

I own over a dozen firearms - but we really should not talk about firearms on this particular thread. The interesting issues are how hostile boardings came about, what happened - and what if, anything, has been learned from the experience. Also, equally interesting, are thoughtful comments about preventing or dealing with such a boarding.

Any mention of proposed 'action hero' type armed responses are really a dead-end for a forum, and best kept to yourself. Everyone believes you, but what's a good option for you, is not a good option for anyone else, who has not already thought of the idea on their own. I respect the firearm option, and actually carry a shotgun on the boat sometimes, but recognize that option can go horribly wrong - as well as be just like the movies. There are a ton of gun forums for that kind of discussion.

[Mush]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

I wrote: (Assuming you are someplace where such a thing is legal)



So apparently... not too good at reading? And my guess is that you fear guns. Yes, my mate would be screaming as someone enters the companionway. She would also be screaming as the perp goes down.



But it sounds like you value your fiberglass over you and your mates life? I don't understand that. I can buy another boat.



Less than lethal loads are typically subsonic (look it up). If I need to get past the first two rounds of less than lethal shells, the boat will be the least of my concern. Although unknown by many city dwellers and suburbanites ( I was one ), shotguns are frequently used in the country. They are about as common as shovels out here, actually more so. Raccoons are very hard to handle around the barn with your bare hands. In fact they will chew through a wire live trap given some time. Yeah, I know they look cute, but they love to chew on chickens, pups, and kittens. Shotguns slow them down for easier handling. Same with Ground Hogs, Skunks, and other varmints. I've taken 8 or 9 Raccoons out the barn so far this year. So I know how to handle a shotgun. #4 Birdshot will make your ears ring for a little while, but you will be alive, and the other guy will be a bloody mess. BTW, if I didn't get the Raccoons out of the barn, my mate would be screaming at ME!

YOUR BARN??? Your BOAT is as big as your BARN? LOL Then you should have professional armed security .... kitten and puppies ...LOL ... you have never had to fire a shot under duress in close quarters I take it ..... you will be deaf for a long minute ... I promise you that .... lite load or not.

I fear no gun ... I own guns. I fear idiots with guns. I sail internationally and piracy is a ever increasing problem for cruisers. Pirates unlike RACCOONS are very bad people at their core ... they are not looking for a chicken to eat. Even if your boat does look like a barn and you keep livestock on board!!

As far as fiberglass vs my Mates ..... I have already made the choice to not allow pirates of my vessel EVER. We all stand watches at night. Overnight is always covered .... no matter what. So it sounds to me that sleeping next to your wife means more to you then standing watch over your vessel and crew. That is your choice .... I choose to post a watch. The end result of posting an overnight watch is that a CAN OF BEAR SPRAY is all the watch needs. Modern Pirates do not board boats with a posted watch as a general rule.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

Any mention of proposed 'action hero' type armed responses are really a dead-end for a forum, and best kept to yourself. .

[Dave9111]

I think that deterrence is the best solution - armed conflict is always the last thing anyone wants to encounter.



No one wants bad things to happen.



In the previous messages alarms and motion detectors were mentioned (and yes I did read virtually all of the previous messages). However they were also mentioned as being expensive. As I pointed out, I think that a method of scaring away bad folks may be as simple as a siren/flashing strobe light and a simple switch. It doesn't get much simpler than that.
For about $100 you can make a "get the hell off my boat system". I think thats a cheap solution!



I mentioned "shotgun" since I wanted to point out that there are less than lethal rounds for a shotgun. Not so for a pistol, machete, spear, fish pike, fish club, etc And that is really the only reason why I bought up a shotgun. Killing someone for stealing my leaking dinghy is not want I want on my conscience.



Another idea which I have found works really well to protect land bound assets. Put up a camera or cameras. Then put up sign (available on Ebay and Amazon) that says video taping in progress or something similar. I really don't even think the camera needs to function. It just need to look like it might be functioning. If you do install a video recording system, you will be amazed by what happens. I had no idea that so many people would make a U turn when they see the sign...



If you do want to install a video recording system/motion detection and recording system - check out Zoneminder. Its free software and it works very well. Also check out Hikvision and Amcrest torpedo security cameras with infrared night vision. Add in a low power laptop and you can have an onboard video monitoring system for about $80 per camera plus laptop cost. A small i5 Intel laptop of high quality can be bought for about $170 on Ebay. Now you can actually see what happens when you leave your boat.

[Simi 60]

These look unobtrusive.
Advertised as a waterproof alarm, siren , strobe but it is just noise and light, no sensor or on off switch.
Plenty of different branding, some Bosch, some Ness and these.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/External....c100005.m1851

[Simi 60]

These ones look interesting
Solar powered, sensor, alarm and strobe

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solar-Al....c100005.m1851

[Marc1]

When it comes to protect yourself from someone boarding your vessel, the potential situations are varied and the possible response depends widely from your own personal capabilities ergo the wide variety of responses.

In other words there is not "one size fit all" ... the same applies to an attack on the street or home invasion.

A younger person with some form of training, familiar with guns and combat may propose something that is ludicrous for the retiree whose abilities are restricted to hitting a golf ball.
And just like with everything else, the solutions proposed are personal and may apply only to someone with similar life experience.

Proof that there is no one size fits all solution is the commercial vessels that face pirates and that can not settle for one decent response. Why don't' they have RPG's and .50" cal gatling guns? Why not cannons?

Personal defence and protection of assets in peace times is loaded with emotions and prejudice, and the answers here reflect that. From the ex military to the computer gig, no one can expect to have a uniform solution that covers all aspects of a complex problem.

And just like in life, there will always be winners and losers. Just make sure you are not the loser and arm yourself with what you are familiar with.
If you are a hunter or target shooter, bring a shotgun loaded with rubber pellets, if you spent your life behind a desk and hate guns, do not.

Alarms, lights and a PA system to scream out will always work and give you some advantage. Not to anchor in secluded and isolated spots is most likely sensible. Avoiding God forsaken countries may be also a good idea.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by TigerPaws

I enlisted in 1970 on my 17th birthday, I punched out 35 years later.

I could only stand 20 myself, but doing an extra five with no increase in Retirement you must have enjoyed your job.

[Mistymountain]

I have been thinking about your posts and a useful contribution I can offer.

My back ground is I spent over 20 years homesteading in New Zealand Bush, where I continued solely by force of arms as my family's security against repeated tribal threats of “I kill you”, and some other demented characters.

I admit I brought some of that on myself due to my refusal to be intimidated, or to tolerate the perpetration of injustice.

I kept a well oiled 12 g shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot in one hand behind the half open door during some of those confrontations. Also a Semi Auto .223 rifle handy for other longer range applications..

Finally, I was never injured and never had to injure anyone else. The knowledge of holding overwhelming force in my hand, gave me a great psychological advantage over these aggressors. Although totally outnumbered, I did overwhelm them all with a strong confident mind.


Boat security.
Be well prepared. Take control of the situation. Your intruder is already psychologically on unstable ground as the thief. Use that against him.

Your intruder does not know what he is up against.

Have a series of steps to your plan.

I have a boat, I just have not paid for it yet. 51 foot Corsair Cat [Seawind]. Lol!
These cats have a large glass window between the stern area and the interior. Not good security at all, initially..


I have a strong lifelong interest in strategy, so here are a few ideas for you.

You are the captain of your boat, so you decide what steps you want to take to feel secure, and to protect your wife and family. Here are some lateral thinking ideas you might like to build on for your situation.

My intention is to try to empower you all and avoid any thought that when attacked, you will be the victim.
Hell no!
Get organised.
Make a plan.

In engineering, there is a tool that sends a metal projectile down a tube at great speed, driven by gas pressure. That is known as a gun.
Customs don’t like you to carry them.

There are other ways of propelling a projectile down a tube, for example using compressed air. It is almost silent, and if you have dive tanks you have a bulk and super powerful supply of propellant.

This air pressure could also be used to run a large air truck horn for further discouragement, and for use as a fog horn.eg a train horn. Imagine that going off in your ear at about a meter away...

Connect that air pressure to a tube, with an electric tap switch, because they open and close extremely fast, and a small sized tank immediately behind the electric air switch , and you have a devastating weapon that can propel projectiles down the tube, and can all be unscrewed and stowed as spare pipes. .

Connect your air hoses with snap on fittings. Air tank could simply be a threaded pipe nipple and two caps. Muzzle load it.

Disassembled, it is unrecognisable to customs, or anyone else.

Anyway it is NOT a gun, until assembled. The broad legal definition of a gun is: a projectile propelled by an explosive, [ actually it is a fast burning powder.]


Secondly. If you have a water maker, you have a water pressure pump producing 850 psi running pressure..
That’s enough pressure to take flesh off the bone!

If you took a T fitting off that output and piped it to a couple of jets each side of your companionway, with a well secured tap control, you have a lovely welcoming to anyone trying to break into your boat.

Add to that perhaps, the ability to spray the outside stern area from above with gasoline, all remote controlled from below...

NOW you are ready to repel all level of threats!

Say your level 1 security is your sensor lights and loud siren. While it deters the level 1 thief, it also wakes you up to action stations, where you immediately prepare all the other systems in case of escalation.


Should your intruder decide he is determined to win this, and smashes your lights, [ that you installed bullet proof glass over], and shoots your siren dead.. and begins to attack your companionway barricade...

Then proceed to level 2. Activate the water maker pressure tap, and give him a wash.

If he starts shooting into your boat, you will have prepared a place for all to shelter. A steel plate behind a bulkhead would be useful. Also lying flat below the waterline makes you a difficult target. Any bullets passing through water are mostly spent of energy.

Make sure he can not see you, with bright light shining towards him, or at least a darkened cabin, and stay out of sight. It is very difficult to shoot a target you cant see, no matter how good a marksman you are.

Lots of gunshot wounds are non life threatening so make the best of it. Remember any projectiles have slowed down after going through various boat structure too. Plus, what choice do you have?
He probably didn’t expect to take part in the Alamo, so is unlikely to have a lot of ammo.

Alternatively, you could just say ok you win, have at my wife and kids and enjoy yourself, after you kill me...Cold beer is in the frig.
OR you can take him out.

If he or they, get past the 850 psi wash, and have disabled the lights and siren, and are shooting into your boat, you need to go to DEFCON 3.. or is it 1? lol... Yes DEFCON 1, I believe, or stage 3..

That’s when you turn on the gasoline shower setup that covers everything on the stern, outside your companionway barricade, with gasoline. The next shot they fire will ignite the gasoline and their clothing and skin.

If it does not ignite, maybe they will likely decide it would be wise to depart. If it does ignite, they will definitely depart overboard, or remain as lumps of toast.

If these measures you have taken do not prevail, you have certainly not lost a thing that you would not have lost to the same people anyway.

I doubt many boat burglars would persist after this... and you have not used your compressed air gun yet.
Maybe a 25mm tube with 9X 00 buckshot in it? Sounds fine. They are 32 calibre lead balls, and will go through a hell of a lot to find a target... or maybe 12 g deer slugs, which will penetrate more than almost any other projectile, and do more damage, or stainless ball bearings, up to you.

Also consider what you could stash in the cockpit safely that would explode if filled to dive tank pressure.. food for thought.
No one enjoys things blowing up beside them,... shrapnel, and ear drum damage.......... Short of a claymore setup each side of the companionway.... lol lol

Then there is the trusty Bear spray too. As a garnish, if you get an opportunity to get that close.

Make damn sure you have enough co2 and dry powder fire extinguishers on board to put your stern fire out as soon as the coast is clear. Your water pressure sprayer might assist, or not, since gasoline floats on water, it will run and burn as it goes down the drains.

Auto extinguishers in your stern Cat engine rooms might be a good idea in this scenario.

Maybe you can set up the gasoline sprayer to switch over to water, and help put it out remotely that way.

Make a plan according to your needs.


I think I can hear the screams of protest from the owners of pristine boats of extreme monetary value as I write..

Ok lets look at that. Boat damage. What’s your priority? Family unhurt, intruders badly hurt, boat badly scorched.

Who is having the final satisfaction there?

Family safe. First priority ticked off. Boat is repairable or replaceable, people are not.

Cruising involves giant amounts of preparation for all contingencies, why not have a great plan for this too,
it does involve the wellbeing of your spouse, families and friends lives.

That’s my contribution to feed your thoughts on this subject.

No doubt there will be howls of protest at all the things I didn’t mention.
Thanks in advance.
Good your brain has got blood in it, and you are formulating your plan.
Yes you can do yours your way.

Just Hoping is an action. I would suggest you try to figure out a plan B.


Don’t be any one’s victim.
Take control. Be prepared.

Weigh the plan costs v benefits. Do a regular drill. Plan on winning this, in the very unlikely event it does happen.

Just like epirbs and life rafts. Relax. Enjoy the trip! Now you have thought of everything! lol