Boarded with bad intentions?

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mistymountain.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mush

... be ready for a fight .... it is not the 80's-90's any more and we American's are not loved world wide any more. Fight first and save the TURDS after you have done your DUTY and defended you and yours.

Originally Posted by Mush

I would rather be sitting in a HELL HOLE CELL in some crappy country then have one of my Mates raped. If you have boarded my vessel I am considering you as a threat ..... and you are leaving dead or alive...

Perhaps, in your case, the red may help explain the blue.
The green may just be another example of a false dichotomy.

[Mistymountain]

Roger that GordMay.

A pleasure to be of service! :-)

[boatman61]

Damn.. makes me wonder how I manages to live so long without a gun..

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

After the last few posts I'm starting to think that I wasted my time writing the summary on the previous page... http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2937313 Unfortunately it seems common to reply to threads here without actually reading any of the previous posts.

C'mon now - you left out the armchair macho fantasies of the bros who want to shoot dudes!
You are signal - they are noise...

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by lestersails

C'mon now - you left out the armchair macho fantasies of the bros who want to shoot dudes!
You are signal - they are noise...

I know - you would think these fearless tough guys would have jumped at the chance to join the military, and gotten in some real action with trained guys that shoot back. Surprisingly, most of them have not done that, and haven't even tried.

I mean no offense to anyone, as I'd use a gun to defend myself and family too, but some people spend one heck of a lot of time envisioning all kinds of action hero fantasies throughout their whole lives. Quite honestly, the last thing I want to do is to live out an action hero fantasy, no matter what the outcome. Killing someone is rarely as satisfying as it's made out to be. Ask anyone who has actually been in combat.

Again, I sincerely mean no offense to anyone, but this is a specialized sailing forum, and about 80% of the participants respectfully don't want to read all the violent response stuff here. Even if it works. They are specifically participating on this thread in an attempt to find ways to avoid that dicey option, and it's been repeatedly and respectfully requested by the majority that that we just leave that option out of this particular discussion on what can be learned about hostile boardings.

It's been a great thread overall, and I've read a lot of great and useful comments. Thanks for everyone who has taken the time to respond - including those who have offered shoot-em-up options, but it's really already been covered pretty well as far as that option goes. Firearm calibers and projectile types, etc. are covered in more depth on hundreds of other non-sailing forums, and that crowd is always eager to keep it going. I'm on those forums too. Thanks again to everyone who has responded so far.

[Go Wildcats]

Eight percent of officer deaths are by their own weapon in the hands of others. Officers miss approximately 80% of their shots during incidents. And these officers are trained and many are ex-military. For those that advocate firearm use for protection, please be aware that your missed shots will impact somewhere and at least 80% won't be the intruder (e.g. your boat, your love ones, your neighbors boat, your neighbors...).

[Mistymountain]

Extremely easy to avoid all the possible confrontations.

Don't go sailing.

Dealing with the reality of boat invasion when its happening will require facing the facts, so, if not before, then during the incident.
Not facing those "icky" details in advance, doesn't make them go away.


How do adults in a forum discuss dealing with violence on yachts without mentioning violence?

[CPYB Sailor]

I've noted previously that a simple trip alarm using an auto theft alarm (available at most electronics or auto parts stores), a simple homemade switch, and a 12 V battery, for about $10, and will wake up everyone in the anchorage at 100+ db! Interested? Google "trip alarm". It can be set up to guard your dinghy (take it anywhere!), or in the cockpit near the companionway. Regarding guns, if you kill a citizen of another country - no matter what the circumstance - you'd better be prepared for trouble! Best to scare em off, and they generally scare easily.

[paul2884]

Originally Posted by Gaia

I am disappointed at most of these comments I hesitate to say. Most, I am sorry to say, bristle with nonsense. Nonsense which is counterproductive when dealing with or thinking about this serious subject. We have been there four times during our 23 year long circumnavigation. We left Canada with pepper spray on board and it saved our lives in the Rio Dulce. I kid you not. It is by far the best solution much aided by having a dog on board which however brings with it it's own problems. (We did not). The attack happened after midnight while anchored. Although i was hospitalised the use of the spray by Helen immobilized two of our attackers and Helen then chased the third knife wielder into his dugout.

The next day she returned to GAIA to clean up copious quantities of blood, mine, and found a noose----!

It is quite illuminating how experiencing a violent attack opens ones eyes and thoughts to the reality of these situations. I could go deep into this subject but let me just say that carrying weapons and attempting to use them is nuts to be blunt. The many reasons have been adequately covered elsewhere and if you are not convinced now my opinions will not change your mind.

One example will suffice: In the middle of the night we were jolted awake a long ways up the Gambia river and on coming on deck, cautiously and carrying pepper spray as we had learned to do years before in the Rio Dulce, we saw a person in the act of coming on board over the transom. His sudden appearance fightened us! It turned out that his drift net had caught around our keel. (We were anchored in the middle of the river and fishing thus is their modus operandi.) I spent the next two hours helping him recover his only means of earning a living. Considering our heightened state of excitement, as we had never forgotten the Rio Dulce, I cringe when thinking what might have happened had we been stupid enough to carry a firearm.

Carry pepper sprays, the jet type, small so it is hidden in your hand and have them handy from wherever you are in many different places. Renew it periodically. With pepper spray you will not kill, innocents or other perhaps more desperate human beings. And they are unlikely to be turned on you like other weapons might be. They, because they can be omnipresent as suggested, will be available when you need them whether you are in bed or sitting on the head. That cannot be said of other weapons unless you go around looking like Wyattt Earp in Paradise. Try tucking a Colt 45 in your underpants. Had we reached for a gun while being attacked in bed we would both be dead now. Of that there is absolutely no doubt. And you will not need to lie, nor face the consequences thereof, when asked time and time again 'do you have weapons on board'?

My apologies for using aggressive language early on but one should not comment on subjects one knows nothing about particularly when they might involve life or death.

Jim

Jim

Seems a sensible and balanced view, who wants to risk killing someone and spending the next 20 years in some 3rd world jail! Also if you do serious damage to one person whose to say they dont have a "big brother" who will come and find you with his armed friends the next night? You might just start your own private war.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Mistymountain

Extremely easy to avoid all the possible confrontations.

Don't go sailing.

Dealing with the reality of boat invasion when its happening will require facing the facts, so, if not before, then during the incident.
Not facing those "icky" details in advance, doesn't make them go away.


How do adults in a forum discuss dealing with violence on yachts without mentioning violence?

I agree, and you raise good points. Sailors here are trying to face the facts though, and specifically to see what can be learned from other people who have been through hostile boardings. The violence part is a possibility of course, but they don't want to talk about guns right here, as anyone who plans going that way has likely already thought of it on their own.

This thread is more focused on what can be done to prevent these situations from happening in the first place. There are a lot of very good forums on armed self-defense, where calibers, handgun vs. shotgun, etc. are discussed, and anyone planning to go that way has probably already found those forums dedicated to the option. I don't believe it has anything to do with bravery, just a different focus on what can be done to prevent situations where hostile boardings come about in the first place. All good comments are welcome.

[Otium]

I have thought about this for years. Both in my home and on my boats. My non-lethal solution, 'Bear Spray'. Shoots 25'-30'. Hit 'em anywhere chest up, and they will be incapacitated. Then you can do with them what you will.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

MHO is that if intruders armed with guns break into your yacht in the middle of the night, bear spray or ANY non-lethal defense is worthless.

If alarms and lights don't scare them off you're screwed.

I would respectfully have to disagree. Ever try to do anything after being sprayed with Bear Spray? Only thing I think they would want to do is get away and get some water on their eyes. Can't see, can't breath. Definitely can't aim or shoot.

For me personally, way better option than killing someone. I don't own anything worth that, but I will try to deter them as aggressively as possible short of that.

But in the end this is definitely personal preference. To each their own, and I respect your personal choice. All will have Pro's and Con's as well as their own consequences.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I have personal experience to prove that it is NOT! This wasp spray nonsense is nothing but urban legend, perpetrated across the internet by people who believe anything they read.

Can't speak to Wasp Spray, but this OC Spray looks fairly effective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q23P91rB4_8

[Montanan]

In Montana, it is common to carry bear spray, never leave home for the wilds without it. It will deter a grizzly bear and any intruder, but do be cognizant that it may back spray on to you in which case your vision and breathing will also be impaired. Best used on deck and not inside the cabin, awful stuff to have in the air and your boat, [home or car] will require a thorough cleaning after deploying such.

Just before you spray take a big breath and hold your breath and close your eyes if the wind is against you or you are in an enclosure. Promptly move out of the enclosure, or let the air clear if you are outside.