Boat papers in the Netherlands - Help needed

[tchavei]

Btw, last time I was in the Czech Republic, I don't remember seeing a sea... Where will you use your boat? River? Lake? Or keep it outside the country? If the latter, I can't see any reason to "import" the vessel.

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[messias]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

If you do purchase a boat in the Netherlands, please report back to this thread the process and any tips or obstacles or lessons learned in the process.

Hi Steady Hand,

I will report back for sure!
And apparently we like the same kind of boats (which is even worse when it comes to paperwork!)

[messias]

Originally Posted by tchavei

Btw, last time I was in the Czech Republic, I don't remember seeing a sea...

Stop provoking me, will you?!
Last time the sea "stopped by" was a couple of million years ago.

I intend to keep it in the local lake.

[tchavei]

Originally Posted by messias

Olá Tony,

Oh! good old Portugal...
I still remember the days where boat licences were only a matter of studying by yourself and attend the exam "Ad hoc"... and the almost non existing fees for launching your boat... but that was many years ago [emoji3]

Licences wise, I had to do 3 of them! My portuguese one... not recognized when I moved to Brasil... got a new one while I lived there. Not recognized in the Czech Republic when I came here (both of them)... got a new one over here
I even filed a complaint in the EU comission and their answer came a few months later:

Leisure boating is out of the EU scope and it is a matter solely for each country (professional boating is well covered within the EU...but not our kind of boating), so I´m on my own here.

Loved your Czech language ability [emoji3]
Na schledanou!

Knowing my government, I find it quite odd they wouldn't tax the hell out of import vessels if they could or force people to register boats locally.

Regarding Czech language... It was my mother language although I never learned to write in Czech.

Ps: Brasil not recognizing Portuguese yachtsman or above licence? Really? Hahaha. That's quite humourus knowing Brazil's education system.


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[tchavei]

Originally Posted by messias

Stop provoking me, will you?! [emoji3]
Last time the sea "stopped by" was a couple of million years ago.

I intend to keep it in the local lake.

I'm just suggesting you should leave the boat in the algarve for me to take care of it during the winter and you flying here in the summer and enjoy it lol

Maybe not a good idea. Marinas are quite expensive here and the only one that isn't, has a 16 year long waiting list. Glad I'm only on the list for 12 years now and still have 80 guys ahead of me

Tony

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[Tjurd]

In the Netherlands most small boats have no registration, a bill of sale will prove that is yours. And the boat can be insured with data collected on the boat, hull number (if available) engine number, type etc.

Most more expensive boats have a "Boat" mortgage or i.o.w. are paid with a loan. Mostly the bank states that the boat will have to be registered at Kadaster, cadaster in English?

Our boat had a mortage on it from the previous owner, when we bought the boat we had two choices, either take the registration off, or keep it registered.

Keeping it registered was more expensive than getting rid of the registration. Getting rid of the registry would cost us a about 300 euro’s in notary costs.
Keeping the registry would cost us about 900 euro’s in notary and registry costs
We don’t have a loan on the boat but we kept the registry on the boat, the registry proves that the boat is ours, what flag she carry’s, her hometown, call sign, tonnage etc. It’s a official document which doesn’t expire and is acknowledged throughout the whole world. (we plan on sailing abroad).

If we didn’t register the boat, we would need to get a different document to prove that the boat is ours abroad, this document has an expiration date of I think 2 years or so? Not sure. It’s not that expensive, but also less “official” and doesn’t require a notary office. (this is of course for Dutch residents)

If you buy a boat in the Netherlands which is priced above lets say 10k then I would advise to buy the boat through a notary office, even if it is not registered. The notary can check if the boat has any loans on it and if it is registered while the owner might say it is not. If it does have a unpaid loan on it, and you buy the boat with just a bill of sale, the boat will be confiscated by the bank.

Another thing to keep in mind is if the VAT has been paid, a registered boat will tell you in its official papers if VAT has been paid. You wont know for sure if you only have a bill of sale. The bill a sale when new can prove though that tax has or hasn’t been paid.

If you take the boat abroad and register (or don't) it in your hometown I would advise on buying the boat through a notary in the Netherlands, if there is dutch registration on it, get it taken off, and with proof. and a notary's bill of sale, VAT paid bil etc. will make it easy for you to register the boat in your hometown (or not)
Good luck

[messias]

Hi there Tjurd!

Thank you, very, very, very much for your comprehensive answer!
I will do that for sure! So I guess it will be a lot of paperwork, taxes and official translators involved... but the price difference is horrendous so in the end it will be worth it!

Thanks again!

[messias]

Originally Posted by tchavei

Ps: Brasil not recognizing Portuguese yachtsman or above licence? Really? Hahaha. That's quite humourus knowing Brazil's education system.

Hilarious, to say the least... even more when Portugal DOES recognize Brazilian ones!

Boating in the Algarve? Hehehe... no, thank you. I would get a fine for not having the correct size of "band aids" in the first aid kit.

[tchavei]

Originally Posted by messias

Hilarious, to say the least... even more when Portugal DOES recognize Brazilian ones!

Boating in the Algarve? Hehehe... no, thank you. I would get a fine for not having the correct size of "band aids" in the first aid kit.

Hmm... Sounds like you know Portuguese marine laws pretty well. Did you check if your hydrogen peroxide bottle expiration date is still valid? Big fine too [emoji14]

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[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by messias

If you would take your own boat (flagged UK, for example) and leave it in the Czech Republic for a whole year or 2, you would not have any problems... because if and when the authorities would approach you, you´d just present them with your papers and for them... since you do not live here but in the Canary Islands (for example), you´d be considered a tourist.
For me... I live here, so I could be forced to register it as local.

Argh. I see. You want to use her in YOUR home country. My mistake I imagined you are like Martin and want to sail the oceans (OK, say the Med, for starters).

Yep. In your own country likely they will pester you. Bloody bureaucrats everywhere the same.

Eh, good luck finding the best solution, and many great summer escapades to you !

barnakiel

[messias]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

If you do purchase a boat in the Netherlands, please report back to this thread the process and any tips or obstacles or lessons learned in the process.

Hi Steady Hand (and everyone),

As promised, I'm "reporting back" on the process.

I ended up buying an open 20' fixed keel daysailer, just South of Amsterdam.
What I really wanted Vs my reality-check (location, local infrastructure, amount of times sailing and the growing interest my youngest daughter on getting on anything afloat) lead me to this decision.
The boat is an UFO, but not related to the more widely known UFO's 21/22/31/34 footers. This is a not-so-known Dutch Design by Sierp De Vries from the 80's.

It's a rather sedate and stable boat, fitting my requirements perfectly (apart from the fact that is almost impossible to launch a keel boat with my car and the infrastructure , ie crane availability, limits me to only a couple of sailing grounds).

Boat Facts:
LOA: 6.1 m
LWL: 5.5 m
Beam: 2 m
Draft: 90 cm
Displacement: 500 kg
Ballast: 160 (or 180 kg)
Fractional Rig (mast: 7 m tall)
4hp Johnson outboard

Now... for the registration part as promised!

Being an EU citizen does not actually mean much, as (strictly legally speaking) recreational boating is solely a matter of each individual state to decide upon, but since there are a few "agreements" in place between countries, here's what worked for me:

Czech Republic demands that all boats that exceed the following parameters to be registered (1000 kg displacement / >4 KW motor / >12 sqm sail area), so I had to make one, but after querying about the acceptance of foreign certificates for boats sailing permanently here, I ended up making a Dutch ICP registration (they called it the "light registration") and is a document that contains the owner's details, boat data, engine details and along with radio station details as well, if that is also the case.

This document is offered by all of the Dutch and Belgian online registration agencies, but these agencies advertise prices starting at 300/400 euros and all the way to 700... for this simple document.
I ended up finding a small agency that did it for 75 euros, ( 11 euros postage included!) and I had it in my hand in 14 days.
If someone is thinking on going through the same kind of process, I can highly recommend this agency. Just google "zeeenwater" (3 "e"'s)

The process was completely done online!

They asked me for the bill of sale, photographs of the engine's details, my personal data, the desired port of registration and any (if any) info I also wanted to include. End of story!

With that document in my hand, I went to the insurance company and applied for a 3rd party cover. 2 days later I received the insurance papers.

The ICP is valid for 2 years, but renewing it through the same agency will only cost me 50'something euros... so that's a no-brainer for me.

Now, for your pleasure (actually for mine, ) here are the pics of the lady I bought, some "half way" pics... and what I have made her look like after a few painful months of extensive refit.












She is now (after the proper ceremony) renamed "Cookie Jar", honoring the actual cookie jar where I was looong time saving coins into! Yes, the buying budget came from coins only...
Before you ask, yes... they were exchanged for bills before paying the former owner,

Greetings to all!