Boats with 4 cabins & 4 heads.

[David B]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

I'm interested in boats with 4 cabins & 4 heads.

Lagoon 46 is one I've come across. I saw one for $260k & someone said it probably would need $50k in fix ups.

Also wondering what cheapest would be? I don't want to do much rehabbing as much as possible.

Beneteau Oceanis 50 'Family'

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Novice to boats, novice boat owner, novice Captain to be, and already want to charter???
Please put that in your adverts...I would be weary to make use of your services and I will advise against it.
Having a Capt. License means very little. It means you can operate a boat, not that you can operate problems or navigate challenges.
You are too early and think you can make an income gambling with people's lives.
Renting rooms have nothing in common with managing and chartering a boat.
You do not know what it entails fixing heads on a boat.
Having money to buy a boat does not qualify you to risk people's destiny.

[tennis4789]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

Renting rooms have nothing in common with managing and chartering a boat.

If you think there is no overlap I'll avoid your advice thanks.

[Manateeman]

A lot of people think it’s easy to start a charter business. Some of the members have given you very good information as to why your plan has some serious flaws. We agree with those opinions. We don’t always agree with what members post here yet we would hope you would give these opinions serious consideration.
There is no easy money here. Many people with great skills in vessel operations and maintenance...with professional credentials...with solid business plans...with multi million dollar budgets...FAIL. This is just the reality of the business.
Some attorneys certified in Maritime make a lot of money in actions against corporations who spend millions on safety alone. You are stepping into a legal minefield with any passenger vessel.
Lastly, as pointed out earlier, there is a moral question. Not only are you responsible for passengers but the lives of others who will be called into any rescue situation. As professional mariners, we are obligated to make every effort save you. Please don’t put people in that situation. I strongly urge you to abandon this plan. You can flip houses, but it’s not the same as flipping boats.
Find another way to make money which does not risk the lives of innocent people.
We have seen enough passenger vessel tragedies.
Captain Mark

[tennis4789]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

A lot of people think it’s easy to start a charter business. Some of the members have given you very good information as to why your plan has some serious flaws. We agree with those opinions. We don’t always agree with what members post here yet we would hope you would give these opinions serious consideration.
There is no easy money here. Many people with great skills in vessel operations and maintenance...with professional credentials...with solid business plans...with multi million dollar budgets...FAIL. This is just the reality of the business.
Some attorneys certified in Maritime make a lot of money in actions against corporations who spend millions on safety alone. You are stepping into a legal minefield with any passenger vessel.
Lastly, as pointed out earlier, there is a moral question. Not only are you responsible for passengers but the lives of others who will be called into any rescue situation. As professional mariners, we are obligated to make every effort save you. Please don’t put people in that situation. I strongly urge you to abandon this plan. You can flip houses, but it’s not the same as flipping boats.
Find another way to make money which does not risk the lives of innocent people.
We have seen enough passenger vessel tragedies.
Captain Mark

In 7 years you do not think I can safely captain & charter a 4/4? & with some luck & hard work I might even break even financially. This advice from you seems to make zero logical sense.

Any advice to limit my legal liability? Other than the obvious don't rent to heavy drinking attorneys?

Edit: who is we?

[contrail]

Almost everything we try, starts as a dream. Maybe it then becomes and ambition. And maybe after that, it becomes a reality. That the whole process needs to be taken in stages, that there is a lot to getting to the point of knowing what you don't know, and then learning so that you DO know, is always obvious, in hindsight, to those who have actually accomplished a goal. It's often not so obvious before one actually begins, way back in the dream stage. Those who succeed are often those who, despite their optimism, remain wary of the unknown, and pay attention to all the little steps along the way. Those who allow their optimism to actually become unrealistic hubris, usually join the majority of those, in any field, who fail to succeed in their ambitions.


As someone who, until the past year, sucessfully operated a crewed term charter business, for sixteen years, in the BVI, I look at the OP's posts and understand his enthusiasm. I also understand how little he knows, that he does not know it, how much he needs to learn, and how long his road will be. I remember walking in his shoes. I succeeded because I went slow, listened, and learned. I am not convinced that the OP is particularly interested in all of that, but I hope he is.


To the OP: licensing and legal requirements are fundamental, and they are usually much more difficult outside the US. YOU are not the one who decides how much you will work....that is an impression that most newbies have. I certainly did. It's the guests who decide to charter with you, or not to charter with you, who decide that. They usually work through a broker, and you will not do well with brokers unless everything is on the up and up. No shortcuts, or it's no charters. There are many reasons for this, liability and insurance being just two. If your potential guests make their decisions without a broker, they will certainly research you online, and every wart will be exposed. By the way, in the US, getting any sort of USCG license depends, in addition to testing, time at sea. And the USCG reviews your time, and may or may not approve you for testing.


As has been mentioned, there are very specific requirements for the vessel, as well. In the US, among other things, there is the Jones Act, as has been mentioned. In other countries, there is other legislation. Although you probably don't realize it, if you operate outside the law, and that includes licensing and so forth, your insurance is void. And, you may not only lose your shirt, but your boat. If you work in a foreign country, that country will also have labor laws and business laws that must be complied with. There are those folks who think they will just work around that, but it usually catches up with them, and, again, their insurance will be void and no broker will book them.


Assuming that you get all your licenses squared away, and actually spend enough time at sea to learn to trouble shoot, as well as to sail, the biggest challenge will be constantly dealing with all sorts of people, both good and bad. I have no idea whether you are a master at this, or hopeless. Until you do it on a charter boat, you have no idea either. With regard to previous posts, drugs, of any kind, are almost always contractually reason to end the charter, on the spot, with no refund. That one is easy. Many (most?) boats also have, in their contracts, a clause that prohibits smoking, or restricts it to a specific area, like the transom. The tough one is alcohol, on a term charter, which is what a liveaboard charter spanning several days, a week or more, is called. On a daysail, it's easy to deal with. On a term charter, not so much. You cannot forbid it, or you will never book a charter, so the art is finding a way to manage it, or, worst case, live with it for a few days. Remember, the guests are on vacation, and for many people, drinking a lot is a big part of the vacation. This one thing is often a big part of the decision to ultimately quit this industry. A person just can't deal with self-indulged drunks, any more. And, it takes quite a few nice people (and most guests are very nice) to balance just one person who is out of control. Can you do that, or learn to do that?


You have rejected much of the advice offered in this thread on the basis that it's very similar to hospitality on land, one small niche of which you are familiar with. In some ways, it is, and that may be to your benefit. But, in many ways, it's completely different. It's sort of like a person who has just soloed an aircraft, for the first time, saying that he is going to be a Boeing 777 pilot. Maybe, maybe not. He certainly has taken the first step, but the road to that dream, that ambition, that reality, is a long one, and many more fall by the wayside than succeed.


I wish you the best of luck. And I sincerely suggest that you do what many of the best charter crews have done, which is to work for a charter company, preferably one of the big ones. The practical education is priceless, although you will already have to have your licenses in place. If, based on that, you decide the industry is not for you, you will have saved a lot of money, learned something about yourself, and had a great experience. If you decide it is, in fact, the life you want, you will have learned what you need to know to buy a boat and enter the industry it as an owner/operator. And, when you look back on this thread and read all the posts, you will shake your head and smile. And, perhaps you will have the opportunity to share some of the wisdom you will have acquired with those who follow you. But, you are nowhere near that now, and you need to be very realistic in charting your path to get there. And, step one is to realize that how much you work is dependent upon many things, only one of which is your choice in the matter.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^

Excellent post! The OP should really read it carefully, leaving off his rose-colored glasses, and finally realize that what he envisions is not reality, not by a long shot.

In short, renting out rooms in a house, motoring about on a river and going on multiple cruise-liner type voyages does absolutely nothing to prepare you to run a personal charter business.

Sad for the OP but observably true in the real world.

Jim

[tennis4789]

Originally Posted by contrail

Almost everything we try, starts as a dream. Maybe it then becomes and ambition. And maybe after that, it becomes a reality. That the whole process needs to be taken in stages, that there is a lot to getting to the point of knowing what you don't know, and then learning so that you DO know, is always obvious, in hindsight, to those who have actually accomplished a goal. It's often not so obvious before one actually begins, way back in the dream stage. Those who succeed are often those who, despite their optimism, remain wary of the unknown, and pay attention to all the little steps along the way. Those who allow their optimism to actually become unrealistic hubris, usually join the majority of those, in any field, who fail to succeed in their ambitions.


As someone who, until the past year, sucessfully operated a crewed term charter business, for sixteen years, in the BVI, I look at the OP's posts and understand his enthusiasm. I also understand how little he knows, that he does not know it, how much he needs to learn, and how long his road will be. I remember walking in his shoes. I succeeded because I went slow, listened, and learned. I am not convinced that the OP is particularly interested in all of that, but I hope he is.


To the OP: licensing and legal requirements are fundamental, and they are usually much more difficult outside the US. YOU are not the one who decides how much you will work....that is an impression that most newbies have. I certainly did. It's the guests who decide to charter with you, or not to charter with you, who decide that. They usually work through a broker, and you will not do well with brokers unless everything is on the up and up. No shortcuts, or it's no charters. There are many reasons for this, liability and insurance being just two. If your potential guests make their decisions without a broker, they will certainly research you online, and every wart will be exposed. By the way, in the US, getting any sort of USCG license depends, in addition to testing, time at sea. And the USCG reviews your time, and may or may not approve you for testing.


As has been mentioned, there are very specific requirements for the vessel, as well. In the US, among other things, there is the Jones Act, as has been mentioned. In other countries, there is other legislation. Although you probably don't realize it, if you operate outside the law, and that includes licensing and so forth, your insurance is void. And, you may not only lose your shirt, but your boat. If you work in a foreign country, that country will also have labor laws and business laws that must be complied with. There are those folks who think they will just work around that, but it usually catches up with them, and, again, their insurance will be void and no broker will book them.


Assuming that you get all your licenses squared away, and actually spend enough time at sea to learn to trouble shoot, as well as to sail, the biggest challenge will be constantly dealing with all sorts of people, both good and bad. I have no idea whether you are a master at this, or hopeless. Until you do it on a charter boat, you have no idea either. With regard to previous posts, drugs, of any kind, are almost always contractually reason to end the charter, on the spot, with no refund. That one is easy. Many (most?) boats also have, in their contracts, a clause that prohibits smoking, or restricts it to a specific area, like the transom. The tough one is alcohol, on a term charter, which is what a liveaboard charter spanning several days, a week or more, is called. On a daysail, it's easy to deal with. On a term charter, not so much. You cannot forbid it, or you will never book a charter, so the art is finding a way to manage it, or, worst case, live with it for a few days. Remember, the guests are on vacation, and for many people, drinking a lot is a big part of the vacation. This one thing is often a big part of the decision to ultimately quit this industry. A person just can't deal with self-indulged drunks, any more. And, it takes quite a few nice people (and most guests are very nice) to balance just one person who is out of control. Can you do that, or learn to do that?


You have rejected much of the advice offered in this thread on the basis that it's very similar to hospitality on land, one small niche of which you are familiar with. In some ways, it is, and that may be to your benefit. But, in many ways, it's completely different. It's sort of like a person who has just soloed an aircraft, for the first time, saying that he is going to be a Boeing 777 pilot. Maybe, maybe not. He certainly has taken the first step, but the road to that dream, that ambition, that reality, is a long one, and many more fall by the wayside than succeed.


I wish you the best of luck. And I sincerely suggest that you do what many of the best charter crews have done, which is to work for a charter company, preferably one of the big ones. The practical education is priceless, although you will already have to have your licenses in place. If, based on that, you decide the industry is not for you, you will have saved a lot of money, learned something about yourself, and had a great experience. If you decide it is, in fact, the life you want, you will have learned what you need to know to buy a boat and enter the industry it as an owner/operator. And, when you look back on this thread and read all the posts, you will shake your head and smile. And, perhaps you will have the opportunity to share some of the wisdom you will have acquired with those who follow you. But, you are nowhere near that now, and you need to be very realistic in charting your path to get there. And, step one is to realize that how much you work is dependent upon many things, only one of which is your choice in the matter.

Thanks good advice.

Maybe I'll just do this:
https://youtu.be/aHZGqBVBCRw

Humor intended.

Integrity & safety are important to me.

Some people on here seem to think that I'm gonna go buy a 4/4 tomorrow & then find 3 couples to charter from me. & then we're gonna sail transatlantic or some such thing. This seems arrogant & ignorant on their part. But maybe their experience is that people do this. Dunno. I'm a planner & like to start with the end goal in mind. Maybe I'm assuming other people think like i do & actually research & plan. "uh I'd like to buy the biggest yacht yiu got. Ok sir. I've got 6 paying customers coming in tomorrow so can you hurry up with that delivery & yeah might as well take a super-sized fry with the yacht with a diet coke of course!" sir I'm gonna need you to pull up while we get your order ready.

[tennis4789]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

^^^^

In short, renting out rooms in a house, motoring about on a river and going on multiple cruise-liner type voyages does absolutely nothing to prepare you to run a personal charter business.

Sad for the OP but observably true in the real world.

Jim

How many leases have you done? How many interviews for tenants? How much marketing for tenants?

Or just speaking like you know what's involved?

I guess maybe marketing interviewing contracts collecting payment aren't involved in chartering some reason i thought they'd be useful. My bad. (sarcasm)

Edit: oh & actually living with people that you're sad to see them go. Reached out to one of favorite past renters who taught me how to mine crypto to keep my house warm. Maybe he & his wife & new baby can be my 1st charter victims. He's from India so i guess we'll just sail from Florida to India.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

If you think there is no overlap I'll avoid your advice thanks.

If you clean the rooms and make the beds, cook and serve B'fast, Lunch and Dinner for the people who rent your rooms why did you not say you operate B&B's..
Now you just have to learn to sail... apart from how to handle drunks..

[tennis4789]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If you clean the rooms and make the beds, cook and serve B'fast, Lunch and Dinner for the people who rent your rooms why did you not say you operate B&B's..
Now you just have to learn to sail... apart from how to handle drunks..

I don't do bed n breakfast. Altho i enjoy cooking & sharing & some of my month to month tenants were awesome cooks. One of them his family owned an Indian restaurant.

Dealt with drunks 10 hours last night. They're kinda fun although can be exhausting. & as long they aren't threatening me or ruining others fun i mostly don't care how drunk tgey get.

Maybe what I'm gonna find is dealing with the alpha male captains i gitta share the water with are the real downers. Especially the arrogant rude litigious ones they are pretty sure they already know everything there is to know. I'm mostly prefer being participative in my leadership style & most of my tenants have been masters/phds consultant types. I can be directive but not nearly as fun imo.

Maybe captains being discourteous to other captains = to cab drivers vs ubers way back when trying to get that extra fare. I've witnessed that a few times in Minnesota fishing. He's cutting off my trolling pattern omg! He's too close. He's gonna catch my perch i almost had.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

I don't do bed n breakfast. Altho i enjoy cooking & sharing & some of my month to month tenants were awesome cooks. One of them his family owned an Indian restaurant.

Dealt with drunks 10 hours last night. They're kinda fun although can be exhausting. & as long they aren't threatening me or ruining others fun i mostly don't care how drunk tgey get.

Maybe what I'm gonna find is dealing with the alpha male captains i gitta share the water with are the real downers. Especially the arrogant rude litigious ones they are pretty sure they already know everything there is to know. I'm mostly prefer being participative in my leadership style & most of my tenants have been masters/phds consultant types. I can be directive but not nearly as fun imo.

Maybe captains being discourteous to other captains = to cab drivers vs ubers way back when trying to get that extra fare. I've witnessed that a few times in Minnesota fishing. He's cutting off my trolling pattern omg! He's too close. He's gonna catch my perch i almost had.

If your planning on chartering while living aboard that's what it entails..
Suggest instead of going on a Cruise ship, next time rent a cabin on one of skipper and hostess catamaran's that operate out off Marigot, SMX.. you will see what the job entails, and get to be what you will learn to hate.
High burn out and turnover rates..
Re discourteous captains, was not aware I was.

[contrail]

"[QUOTE=tennis4789;3560087]How many leases have you done? How many interviews for tenants? How much marketing for tenants?

Or just speaking like you know what's involved?

I guess maybe marketing interviewing contracts collecting payment aren't involved in chartering some reason i thought they'd be useful. My bad. (sarcasm)"





Ah, there you go again!


A contract for a charter is generally way more complex than one for renting a house or room, for many reasons. Start with the fact that a boat may pick up or drop off guests from many different locations. A house does not move. There are itineraries. Borders may be crossed. Guests may want to include instruction or watersports or both. Crew may get sick. There can be breakdowns. The list goes on, and a good contract needs to cover all, or almost all eventualities, as your experience with house contracts will have informed you. But these are on a different level.



You do not interview tenants! They interview YOU. As does the broker community, from whom the majority of crewed charters are booked. They do this, as well as inspect vessels, at charter boat shows. Whilst most boats do self bookings (sometimes most of their bookings, but generally just a portion) and need some marketing skill for that to be successful, most of the marketing, contracts, and payment collection, well in advance, is done by the brokers. That is their function and that, in itself, is a very important and complex relationship.



I think that Jim probably has a pretty good idea of what he is talking about. It sounds like you value "knowing what is involved". So, sit back and learn, because, as far as the charter industry is concerned, you don't. You are starting from zero, like all charter operators have, but you are giving us the answers you hope to find, rather than listening to the ones that are based on fact and experience.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

If you think there is no overlap I'll avoid your advice thanks.

Its a perfect advise
I brought a new FP 47 Sanoa from LaRochelle to Antigua for an owner exactly like you…noobie and combine leisure with easy skipper life and thinking people spend 5-10k are super chilled any easy to handle….he went broke in 8 month and needed a psychiatrist afterwards. The boat is a Desaster and need a major overhaul
…and putting socks on people might be one of the nicer things you would need to do for people that wanna spend 5-10k for a week

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If you clean the rooms and make the beds, cook and serve B'fast, Lunch and Dinner for the people who rent your rooms why did you not say you operate B&B's..

Now you just have to learn to sail... apart from how to handle drunks.. [emoji3]

Maybe he is a skilled plumber? He needs to be one maintaining 4 toilettes ..ask me how I know.