Botany Bay to Pittwater

[Mocking]

Well I went over this morning to have a look at what had been done in 2 1/2 months with a cost of over $6k.
Met the proprietor and he his an very nice guy. He still hadn't had a chance to revise my invoice and suggested that I arrange the mooring, as I am leaving her up in Pittwater for a month to explore around, and come which I did. Still no revised account so I grabbed the keys and got a lift out to the boat to check the motor. During pre start checked the oil, it was still black and did not appear to have been changed so I called the office. He was pretty sure it had been changed but had to check????? Started the motor and it fired first go as usual. Went down to check the little leak on the head and found water leaking all the way along the head NOT in one little area as previously advised. Took it up to cruise revs and checked the leaks now I have little rivers flowing down the motor.
Switched it all off and called the office again, he had not actually seen the leaks was only telling me what his guys had told him.
Not happy, so I shut down and went back to the office. Now he tells me that he could not find any evidence of the oil change on my account so he is not sure if it was done. The colour tells me it wasn't.
And now the possible slight issue with the head may have something to do with the head not put back on properly and asked if I had the maintenance book, which as I already told was on the boat which gives you the bolt tightening information.
Also still had not looked at the invoice but told me that it was originally going to be over $7k, and he trimmed it back.
I cant believe it that you put a motor in for a service and they don't change the oil and it never had a leak from the head when I took it to them and now it is pissing out. He tried to tell me that it probably was leaking before but that salt residue built up along the leaks and stopped it??? How likely is that??? It appears that the owner had others doing the work and did not keep abreast of what was done or workmanship.
Not bloody happy now.

[SimonV]

6k is what you expect to pay for a rebuild .

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Mocking]

Simon, I know if I double that I could have had a brand new Volvo 30HP and gear box fully installed.

And it appears I didn't get the oil changed for that price. I am not an expert BUT this does NOT look like fresh clean oil to me.

[Wanderlust]

What a disaster. I can't think of a possible justification for replacing the head and then not noticing that water was leaking from it. How could they not see it when running the engine themselves?

The photos you previously posted did indicate it was weeping very slowly before the job. Presumably this was the justification to remove the head in the first place. But once they remove it, they should check whatever is needed to ensure a satisfactory job. Cleaning up any salt residue would be a minor part of that task.

If water is coming out "in rivers" it sounds like the new head gasket has failed or been incorrectly made (why did they need to make one?). If the head had not been tightened sufficiently then the compression would also leak out, making a very obvious noise, so probably not the issue.

However you have a potential major issue if water gets into the cylinders. From your description it sounds like saltwater cooling, which increases the risk of rapid corrosion. Also, if water seeps into one of the cyclinders you could bend or break something when starting the engine. Look up "hydrolock". To be on the safe side, can you turn the engine by hand for a couple of revoultions before you start it? Or release compression?

And you keep saying he's a nice guy. Maybe how he deals with the issue from now on will tell you if that is true.

Again, I suggest posting this story as a new thread so the diesel experts will see it.

P.S. thanks for the PM. I know where not to go for service.

[Mocking]

try upload again?? not working.
does that look like new oil on the dip stick?

[Mocking]

This is it after I stopped it , you can see the white salt residue all over the place.

[SimonV]

Are you sure that head has been off?

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[JPA Cate]

Mocking, FWIW, here's my take on this:

You have been a victim of fraud. Therefore, you're going to need to take some time and more money to get an independent mechanic to go over everything and put in writing what he has found. This may involve a whole new teardown. Friends that this happened to eventually found that all that was new had been it had been painted, so it looked fresh, nothing mechanical had been done.

You have to pay the bill, but you may get your money back.

You need a solicitor. You need a letter from that person. The owner of the business needs to think he's about to be in a whole s**tpot of difficulty. He needs motivation to make things right.

You'll have to decide whether it's okay with you to not pursue it. Some Australians will just lie down and take it (as would some Yanks). But I'm here to mention that this is not the first time this has happened in Pittwater. Also, sometimes one's sense of self respect will be enhanced by standing up for oneself.

Regardless of whether or not you think the owner of the business is a nice guy, he appears to be a lousy businessman, not properly supervising employees, and possibly fraudulent. Personally, for me this would lower my "nice person" evaluation, to maybe something like, "he has an effective line of patter." He has, you know, because a total engine rebuild does not take 2.5 months, and he has kept you sweet for this whole time. You've been paying berthing fees. You have missed a lot of days' sailing.

You need at the least to get the owner to see what's up, and deal with you and not through someone else who may or may not have put his hands on things. The owner is the one responsible. See what he says. What you have found is not as it should be, and is unacceptable. He may need to see this for himself. Then see what he offers you. What it should be is the job done properly, within one week, depending on parts availability. The job could be done properly in less than a week [given parts], just so's you know. AT NO ADDITIONAL COST TO YOU.

Good luck with this. You've already figured out it ain't gonna be fun. You've got some hard work in front of you. After the dust has settled, perhaps a letter to Sydney Afloat might be in order.

Ann

[olaf hart]

Are these the guys with a workshop at the RPAYC?

[boden36]

Ann is spot on with her comment. I would be hesitant though to let these people attempt rectification as it is likely from past performance that they will not be reliable.
Hopefully there is someone in Pittwater who can point you in the direction of someone reliable.

Regards,
Richard

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Mocking

Well I went over this morning to have a look at what had been done in 2 1/2 months with a cost of over $6k.
Met the proprietor and he his an very nice guy. He still hadn't had a chance to revise my invoice and suggested that I arrange the mooring, as I am leaving her up in Pittwater for a month to explore around, and come which I did. Still no revised account so I grabbed the keys and got a lift out to the boat to check the motor. During pre start checked the oil, it was still black and did not appear to have been changed so I called the office. He was pretty sure it had been changed but had to check????? Started the motor and it fired first go as usual. Went down to check the little leak on the head and found water leaking all the way along the head NOT in one little area as previously advised. Took it up to cruise revs and checked the leaks now I have little rivers flowing down the motor.
Switched it all off and called the office again, he had not actually seen the leaks was only telling me what his guys had told him.
Not happy, so I shut down and went back to the office. Now he tells me that he could not find any evidence of the oil change on my account so he is not sure if it was done. The colour tells me it wasn't.
And now the possible slight issue with the head may have something to do with the head not put back on properly and asked if I had the maintenance book, which as I already told was on the boat which gives you the bolt tightening information.
Also still had not looked at the invoice but told me that it was originally going to be over $7k, and he trimmed it back.
I cant believe it that you put a motor in for a service and they don't change the oil and it never had a leak from the head when I took it to them and now it is pissing out. He tried to tell me that it probably was leaking before but that salt residue built up along the leaks and stopped it??? How likely is that??? It appears that the owner had others doing the work and did not keep abreast of what was done or workmanship.
Not bloody happy now.

Sorry to hear the results, definately time for a phone call to fair trading ASAP and also ask where you stand if you remove vessel from the control of the so called mechanic.
Is the mechanic on or near the water or in an industrial area locally ?
All the best, Bob.
Oh BTW thanks for the info regarding the crusing div of the BBYC.

[Mocking]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Are these the guys with a workshop at the RPAYC?

Hi olaf hart

no, it is not there. I have not named them to give them a chance to make it right. If they don't then I will name and shame and post their invoice.

cheers

[Mocking]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Sorry to hear the results, definately time for a phone call to fair trading ASAP and also ask where you stand if you remove vessel from the control of the so called mechanic.
Is the mechanic on or near the water or in an industrial area locally ?
All the best, Bob.
Oh BTW thanks for the info regarding the crusing div of the BBYC.

Hi Bob, they are in Pittwater on the water. I always keep emails and pics, if I can not resolve this amicably then fair trading and my legal eagle will be the next phone calls.

BBYC have more cruising type days coming up and a presentation day on the 26/7 you should check it out, you never know you may like it, if not nothing lost.

[Mocking]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Mocking, FWIW, here's my take on this:

You have been a victim of fraud. Therefore, you're going to need to take some time and more money to get an independent mechanic to go over everything and put in writing what he has found. This may involve a whole new teardown. Friends that this happened to eventually found that all that was new had been it had been painted, so it looked fresh, nothing mechanical had been done.

You have to pay the bill, but you may get your money back.

You need a solicitor. You need a letter from that person. The owner of the business needs to think he's about to be in a whole s**tpot of difficulty. He needs motivation to make things right.

You'll have to decide whether it's okay with you to not pursue it. Some Australians will just lie down and take it (as would some Yanks). But I'm here to mention that this is not the first time this has happened in Pittwater. Also, sometimes one's sense of self respect will be enhanced by standing up for oneself.

Regardless of whether or not you think the owner of the business is a nice guy, he appears to be a lousy businessman, not properly supervising employees, and possibly fraudulent. Personally, for me this would lower my "nice person" evaluation, to maybe something like, "he has an effective line of patter." He has, you know, because a total engine rebuild does not take 2.5 months, and he has kept you sweet for this whole time. You've been paying berthing fees. You have missed a lot of days' sailing.

You need at the least to get the owner to see what's up, and deal with you and not through someone else who may or may not have put his hands on things. The owner is the one responsible. See what he says. What you have found is not as it should be, and is unacceptable. He may need to see this for himself. Then see what he offers you. What it should be is the job done properly, within one week, depending on parts availability. The job could be done properly in less than a week [given parts], just so's you know. AT NO ADDITIONAL COST TO YOU.

Good luck with this. You've already figured out it ain't gonna be fun. You've got some hard work in front of you. After the dust has settled, perhaps a letter to Sydney Afloat might be in order.

Ann

Hi Ann and Jim

thank you for you support and suggestions. I can assure you that I do not take things laying down, I have taken 4 business to court over the past 15 years and won every case. The problem is that some people take my easy going nature as stupidity and complacency.
I have written to them again tonight and now starting to be more forceful, all I ask is for is a fair price and to fix what they said they would and we agreed on, I want nothing for nothing.

Regards
Manni

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Mocking

Hi Ann and Jim

thank you for you support and suggestions. I can assure you that I do not take things laying down, I have taken 4 business to court over the past 15 years and won every case. The problem is that some people take my easy going nature as stupidity and complacency.
I have written to them again tonight and now starting to be more forceful, all I ask is for is a fair price and to fix what they said they would and we agreed on, I want nothing for nothing.

Regards
Manni

Good on ya, mate, go for it.....and good luck with it too, luck doesn't hurt.

Ann