Buy a boat you've never sailed?

[lifeofreilly57]

Another way to get sail time is to join a crew opportunity group. There are a few. Usually people looking for crew for transports, some longer, some shorter.
Scan the opportunities on a regular basis til you see a prospective model your interested in and contact them.
Otherwise it's doubtful a seller would want to spend time doing test sails, they have jobs responsibilities and schedules too.
When I used to buy and sell auction boats I got a lot of lookers who had no intention of buying, just wsting my time, which can be frustrating. I switched to doing viewings at scheduled times and telling interested parties to show up. Usually only about half would, it saved me.much time and aggravation.
Another alternative is to look up owners groups for that boat builder and ask questions, just be aware that your talking to enthusiastic owners so take it with a grain of salt.

[rossdv8]

If the owner is living not too far away, and still likes sailing (or perhaps misses their boat) you could ask if they are willing to take you for a sail if you pay the expenses and help clean up the boat afterwards.

I've done this and it was great. I learned where a lot of little things lived, learned how she liked the sails set, and a couple of tricks i would never have thought of that made engine starting dead set reliable. I also learned a little about how to walk the boat into a berth in reverse - something I had never had to do.

Sure, it was an expensive afternoon - but it was worth it.
The owner seemed to enjoy sharing stuff about his yacht. I enjoyed learning some of its idiot syncrasies that I would have puzzled over for months.

Of course, there are owners who have died - they are not keen on taking people out for as sail.
And there are owners who for some reason just don;t like sailing any more, or who like me, can;t sail any more.. I would like to have taken the person who just bought my last little 24 footer, for a trip or two, but had to decline for health reasons.

[Tonali99]

First thing I'd do is get a different broker. I had one lie to me about the sellers daughter having cancer. Not my problem.
If you know anything about boats you should be able to inspect the vessel yourself. At least enough to determine if it can/should be sailed.
Get a good surveyor, one who will work with you on more than one boat.
Remember a good survey will require a haulout. AFTER the sea trial.
Sail a boat you've never sailed before? Can't tell you how times I've done that, way to many. (going from tiller to wheel was hard the first few minutes, turning the wrong way). Oh and yes, sail and power.
Everything is contingent on a successful survey. You can get an estimate of repair from the surveyor. Take that off the purchase price.
Do not fall in love with the boat. At least not yet.

[more]

Originally Posted by Tonali99

successful survey. You can get an estimate of repair from the surveyor. Take that off the purchase price.
Do not fall in love with the boat. At least not yet.

if seller accept offer.

for example I selling boat with broken engine I ask 10000 average price on market is 12500 new engine is 2000 .and what your survivor tell you engine is broken lover the price

[SeaStory]

Originally Posted by more

if seller accept offer.

for example I selling boat with broken engine I ask 10000 average price on market is 12500 new engine is 2000 .and what your survivor tell you engine is broken lover the price

A broken engine should be disclosed prior as part of the listing. The survey discount is only going to be negotiated if something new comes up during the survey.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I purchased mine using somewhat of a non-standard procedure:

1) View PHOTOS of the boat

2) Made the offer (Subject to satisfactory Survey and Seatrial (or possibly even buyer financing and/or insurability)

3) Offer was accepted, P&S signed by the seller

4) Survey the boat AND do a seatrial

6) Closed on the sale, based on remediation recommendations from survey and seatrial.

It was only my 2nd boat I looked at... the first one was: PHOTOS, OFFER, ACCEPTED OFFER, then FLY down to Caribbean to look at it. Once I saw the condition, I didn't want a survey or seatrile.

The 2nd one was, as mentioned above: PHOTOS, OFFER, ACCEPTED OFFER, then FLY down to Caribbean to look at it, then only AFTER looking at it, did I order the survey and seatrial and I flew down to Caribbean again (from NJ) for the seatrial and survey. it cost my time and money for the seatrial and survey and flights down to the Caribbean, but it was worth it.

I think the OP just doesn't want to spend the money on a seatrial and survey first... which makes sense, since those will run $1000+ even on a relatively cheap boat.

I did actually look at a boat many, many years ago down in Florida... paid for a survey without me being there. That's $600 I never saw again. Boat was bad and I looked at it AFTER the survey.

ALWAYS walk the boat first... if possible. Only then, you'll know BEST if the survey/seatrial is worth the investment.

[Joh.Ghurt]

I met a guy who was in some aeronautic business before, who asked the seller to disclose all known defects and agree the seller will pay for survey in case the survey brings up new stuff not on the list. If nothing new comes up. he would pay for the survey. It was a bit more expensive boat, so he had some leverage.

I found that an interesting approach that would save a lot of time for everyone and make the business harder for crooked brokers.

[WindLove]

Thanks for all the replies. I have asked for a couple of test sails and the brokers always say no way - that's just not the way it's done. I know it works that way for cars, but I can see that taking a boat out is more involved than driving a car around the block.

So when I make an offer I will get a survey and hopefully the surveyor will want to take the boat out and make everything is solid. If it's not, I'll get my deposit back.

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by WindLove

........So when I make an offer I will get a survey and hopefully the surveyor will want to take the boat out and make everything is solid. If it's not, I'll get my deposit back.

When you make an offer with a deposit and get a purchase agreement signed by Buyer and Seller it will include any contingency you request in this order getting financing (if required), sea trail, marine and other surveys and repair allowance (if requested) and approved by Buy and Seller after each contingency is satisfied BEFORE the next contingency. If you do not approve the contingency the deposit is refundable. I have purchased 3 sail and 3 powerboats and that how the purchase process has gone for me. I have also sold 2 sailboats and 2 powerboats and would not want to take someone out for a sea trial just because they want to see/feel how the boat operates/handles, unless I had a signed purchase agreement and I would do that only with the broker or hired captain without me on board.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by WindLove

Thanks for all the replies. I have asked for a couple of test sails and the brokers always say no way - that's just not the way it's done. I know it works that way for cars, but I can see that taking a boat out is more involved than driving a car around the block.

So when I make an offer I will get a survey and hopefully the surveyor will want to take the boat out and make everything is solid. If it's not, I'll get my deposit back.

IMHO the trick to a getting a good survey is getting a good and independent surveyor. If you find a boat in Annapolis, Ft Laud or wherever, post here and you will likely get info on a good surveyor.

I have had several deliveries where the survey was relatively clean, and the boat was a hot mess.

[Mr B]

I bought a 34 foot Sailing catamaran Fiji that I had never sailed or seen,
Online from the owner,
Lots of piccys of inside and outside the boat.
I couldnt even sail a boat at that time, I learnt to sail in Fiji on it after I bought it,

I paid for the out of water survey, My Surveyor with the full knowledge that I was going to sail it to Australia after purchase, About 2000 Nmiles across the Pacific Ocean,
All good from the Survey,
I had watched videos of this particular boat, Previous years model, But Identical, being delivered across the Nrth Atlantic to England from the USA,
Its the boat I wanted, Came with all the bells and Whistles for offshore cruising that I wanted,
It had already crossed the Pacific to Australia, and all the Islands in between,
PO lived on it full time since new in Fiji,
A day and a half with the PO to get to know the systems on board and how to sail it on the Genoa, I didnt have a clue at that time,
Paid cash for it, Then got to have a sail on it,
Very happy with my Purchase and it wasnt cheap,

Cheers Brian,

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by WindLove

I do not like the idea of buying a boat that I have never sailed before. I found something I really like and I want to go see it and sail it.

I think, to WindLove's point, there is a difficult problem in imaging how a boat will perform.


I was, for example, relatively unprepared for how badly my H26 sails in a fresh breeze. It's a water ballasted, high windage, centerboard boat. I knew it was going to sail poorly but didn't appreciate just how poorly compared to what I was used to. I don't race and I didn't think my taste in performance under sail was particularly refined. Wrong. It's an inexpensive boat that I don't plan to keep very long or sail in bad weather so no real harm done.


But I don't want something like that to happen with my next boat.


And that leaves me trying to understand just how bad a boat is that has a reputation for: not moving in light airs, having poor upwind performance, having worse seakeeping ability, being unstable on a run, being more tender than the deep draft version of the same thing, being hard to dock, and so on. Sure there are PHRF handicaps and various ratios to look at but it's hard to convert that into the experience of sailing these boats.


I don't think there are any easy answers, especially with more unusual boats that aren't ordinarily offered on a charter basis.

[Hoodsail]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I bought a 34 foot Sailing catamaran Fiji that I had never sailed or seen,
Online from the owner,
Lots of piccys of inside and outside the boat.
I couldnt even sail a boat at that time, I learnt to sail in Fiji on it after I bought it,

I paid for the out of water survey, My Surveyor with the full knowledge that I was going to sail it to Australia after purchase, About 2000 Nmiles across the Pacific Ocean,
All good from the Survey,
I had watched videos of this particular boat, Previous years model, But Identical, being delivered across the Nrth Atlantic to England from the USA,
Its the boat I wanted, Came with all the bells and Whistles for offshore cruising that I wanted,
It had already crossed the Pacific to Australia, and all the Islands in between,
PO lived on it full time since new in Fiji,
A day and a half with the PO to get to know the systems on board and how to sail it on the Genoa, I didnt have a clue at that time,
Paid cash for it, Then got to have a sail on it,
Very happy with my Purchase and it wasnt cheap,

Cheers Brian,

Brian, that is crazy!!!! But love your story and assuming you did the 2000nm shortly after purchase?! My planned < 700 nm seems like child's play compared to your adventure...had my boat x 5yrs/working on her between seasons of sailing...thnks

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

Brian, that is crazy!!!! But love your story and assuming you did the 2000nm shortly after purchase?! My planned < 700 nm seems like child's play compared to your adventure...had my boat x 5yrs/working on her between seasons of sailing...thnks

It took me 6 weeks to learn how to sail it,
Then I lifted the anchor and sailed it to Bundaberg. Australia,

[cal40john]

I agree with the Cates that it is region dependent. We signed a contract, put a deposit in escrow, booked a survey, and did the sea trial first, days before the survey. The seller thought this was backwards. I asked the surveyor what was the norm and he said that the sea trial was first, why would you pay for a survey on a boat you didn't like. The boat performed poorly and we declined to purchase, then informed the surveyor to cancel.

The boat I bought was for sale by owner, no contract for the sea trial. It was a week night beer can race that we went out on that he ordinarily went on anyway.