Buying a '70s or '80s sailboat - what to look for

[hjohnson]

As the (part) owner of a 1973 Ericson 27, it really comes down to both the original builder, and the care & attention that has been lavished upon her in the subsequent decades. Over the decades, our boat has been well maintained, and received plenty of upgrades in that time. It also helped that she had been in my friend's family for some 20 of those years, so we had a long known history with her. In the early days of fiberglass (remember this was in the era of the Nixon/Ford Administration!) they were still learning the trade, and the good manufacturers tended towards overbuilding it.

The one thing that you missed in your list of things to check, though, is the rigging. A couple of years ago, we pulled our stick and had it rebuilt by our local rigging shop. We did it in their low season (mid summer in the PNW, when everyone is actually out using their boats), and I think it still cost us close to $2200 CAD for the job. This incuded replacing all the standing rigging, replacing the sheves in the top of the mast, new steaming light/deck light, etc... If you're going to buy your first boat, you really want someone to check all of that, plus the sails, to see what shape they're in as well. If you're handy, you can do some of this work yourself (last year, my cow-owner and myself sewed our own Jib using a kit from SailRite) but it's definitely a learning process.

[sail sfbay]

Look, look at lots of boats and decide what your criteria are then buy one.........it will not be your first.

[colinalleck]

There has been lots of great advise given from many experienced boat owners. Buy With the head and not the heart. Also clearly understand what you want to buy and how you want to use it, that is do you want to buy a project or something ready for sailing and immediate enjoyment. Also consider your own skill levels and time you have available to invest in fixing a cheapie.

The one specific piece of advise I would like to give is look for a boat that has been well maintained and loved other wise you will be in for a world of hurt.

I owned a 1979 sparkman stephens for 25 years and the investment In $$$ time and effort was more than returned to me in enjoyment and life style.

So no easy answer to your question

Good luck

[Don C L]

I would add the boats built in the 60s as long as you don't mind the CCA rule designed hulls (generally narrower, deeper and shorter waterlines.) I happen to love mine, still solid, cheap (relatively) to own, sails great and a bargain. The 60s saw boats built thick, and hand laid up. The chopper gun came along in the 70s along with problems in resin that led to osmotic blistering, and just more mass-production cost cutting that produced lower quality hulls by some builders. The late 70s and 80s generally have boats that avoided that, though then there are the balsa core decks and hulls to check for that may have problems.

[sinnerman]

I bought an 80's boat that was not well cared for. I spend most of my time working on it doing long-neglected maintenance/repairs instead of sailing it. It didn't have any serious issues, so I bought it, however be aware that it takes a lot of time and $$ to repair a boat and if you do not do the repairs yourself, be ready to spend BIG bucks.

Some run away from the deal items might be:

-Underwater / structural damage (cracked frames, skeg/keel, visual misalignment between keel, rudder, prop strut)

-Severely corroded keel bolts. My boat had great keel bolts (at least the nuts/washers..)

-Issues with rotted deck (wooden) cores (older boats will almost always have some of this) . OR worse rotted coring on boats with cored HULLS...

-Compression post issues on deck-stepped masts. This is evidences by cracks /depressions in the deck around the mast / slack shrouds.

-Evidence that the boat was once partially filled with water / sunk (water marks on inside wood, corrosion).

-Major engine issues (unless you are a good mechanic and do not mind doing the work)

-Age of the standing rigging. Cost is about $3K+ to replace the standing rigging on a 30' sailboat.

-Gasoline Inboard engines. The gasoline Atomic 4 is a fantastic reliable engine. Smooth running, easy starting, HOWEVER having one makes the boat much harder to sell down the road..

-Condition of the electrical wiring. Many have a "rat's nest" behind the switch panel, old corroded wiring. I was lucky to have a boat where the original panel and wiring were "gutted" and a partial new system installed.

-The electronics on these old boats (depth/speed/wind) are usually outdated and the manufacturers out of business. Sometimes if you are very lucky you can find one that has a new chart plotter /wind system / autopilot installed.

-If you can find one, you want a boat that was well cared for, has most of the systems still in place and working You can tell this by the general condition of the boat and what works/doesn't work.

Cheers

[Stewie12]

Hull, Engine, Tanks and Sails. Those are the main and expensive items to look at when buying a boat.

[sail sfbay]

70's or 80's sailboat does not matter.......the key is the boat has to put a smile on your face when you walk up to her and climb aboard.

[SV Siren]

There are lots of older sailboats that come and go. Buy one that has been loved, and skip over the one that needs tons of work, unless it is a small one. The bigger the neglected boat, the bigger the price to work and upgrade it, exponentially....speaking from experience.

[Hoodsail]

CamStar; to get a sense of price, I kept a spreadsheet with boat specifics (make, type, yr, diesel/gas, length, price, accessories, etc), date 1st listed (yatchworld, boattrader, craigslist, etc), date sold (listing removed). I checked these sites at least every other day. Good indoor winter activity here in the Northeast. Go and crawl around as many boats as you can. Winters are great because brokers just sit in their cars with heater going & you can go thru the boat unhindered. Of course, for $10,000, probably will be FSBO...
After doing this type of monitoring for a few months, I got to the point where I could determine a good price. Some boats were sold in days, others languished for months.
Admittedly on for sale by owner sites, the listing may not be removed once it is sold, but a quick email will solve that.
Also helps to limit your search to 2-3 boats, I was searching for 1978-1983 tartan 33 & sabre 34's.

[flyingnut40]

Since you have the more valuable Ameri-bucks you might consider the Canadian boat market. You have not indicated your location or desired type of boat, but as an example of what can be had...... There is a 1979 Bayfield 28 in the Sunnybrook Yachts yard in Chester Nova Scotia that looks like a great buy for you. Looks good, no obvious needs other than cosmetic, yanmar engine is clean and self tailing winches etc look decent. Sails are bagged so no info on condition. $200 for a radio upgrade and you could be off!! If you are looking for a full keel boat that has great potential to sail away, this could be the deal for you.

[TrentePieds]

cAmstar:

I'm late to the party - you've already had a LOT of sound advice, so let me add this:

A LOT depends on where you are, and what you want to use the boat for. So begin your considerations with this:

For US$10K, or call it Can$15K, you can get a perfectly serviceable boat. If you intend to sail her in a place like, say, the Salish Sea, you'll have no worries arising from her condition unless you buy an out'n'out junker.

Make your first job that of finding a place to put her! In the Salish Sea, north of 49, slips are very, very scarce. In the Vancouver area, marinas have waiting lists as long as five years. The lists are shorter on the Vancouver Island side of Georgia Straits, but there are still lists. I've no knowledge of what available south of 49.

Before you act on a purchase, consider also that most people can find the money to BUY a boat. It's the KEEPING of it that can become a problem. So consider this: For KEEPING a forty year old thirty footer in good condition with rigging and sails (roller furling main and jib) that were new five years ago when we bought her for a rock bottom price, I set aside Can$1K per month. That's the boat budget. It pays for moorage (300/m) and insurance ($800/yr) obviously. But here is the kicker: Sails are consumables! How long they last will depend on how hard you sail, but when they are worn out - or if they blow out - you better have the bux to replace them or the boat will be reduced to worthlessness. That's where the $1k/m comes in. It's what's technically called a "sinking fund", i.e. a "savings account" dedicated to maintaining the boast and ensuring that when major expenditures are needed to prevent her from going to wrack and ruin, the money will be there. To replace her engine would cost Can$15K. To repair a Westerbeeke or, worse, a Volvo could easily cost half of that.

Once you own the boat, if you cannot afford to maintain her, you have four options:

a) Sell her. You'll still be paying moorage while waiting for a sale.
b) Give her away. Knowledgeable sailing men would not take a "free" boat. They know that that can be the most expensive way to get a boat!
c) Scrap her. That'll set you back five grand or so.
d) walk away and let the marina worry about her. That won't do you reputation any good, will it :-)?

So the sensible way to go about becoming a contended seafaring man in the Salish Sea is to follow this sequence.

1) Start you sinking fund now: Deposit $1K per month in a dedicated account.

2) Find a slip for a boat, Start paying for it from the "boat account"

3) Buy the boat and enjoy her - i.e. sail her and maintain her. Allow about two hours of time spent on maintenance for every hour of sailing.

Other bits and bobs: on a cheap boat you are not likely to find solar panels capable of keeping the batteries up to snuff. If you keep the boat in a slip, make her a present of a good charger (about $600)if she doesn't already have one, so you can maintain the batteries with shore side current when you are not actually sailing. The standard alternator on the engine will not be adequate for serious cruising away from shoreside power unless you are VERY frugal with the stored juice when you are away from a shoreside plug-in. Change all light bulbs to LEDs, to minimize consumption.

In the Salish Sea, cruising in the "off" season can get really really cold. A diesel fuelled truck-cabin heater is one solution. Count a thousand bux for a Chinese unit properly installed. $2K for a German one. More sweaters and good "foulies" are another solution. Count $600 for a serious set of weather gear">foul weather gear.

Most likely the flares found aboard a "new to you" boat will be outta date and need replacing. Call it $200 bux. They are required by law. The "sniffer" that detects gas in the bilge may have gotten wet and need replacing. The one that is there will no longer be offered by the maker. Count $450 for a new one.

And on and on. You get the idea :-)

Best to do a "thought experiment". Let the all-knowing Ms.Google help you. Imagine a 27 or 30 foot boat in "poor" condition. Make a spreadsheet of all the bits and pieces that might need "seeing to". Get the prices of those bits off HolyMotherNet. All chandlers have web sites where you can find the prices of the bits.

After doing that, and reading BoatPoker's "Surveying 101" cited in a previous post, you'll have a better idea of what you are proposing to undertake.

All the best to you!

TrentePieds

[Island Time O25]

Also haven't seen mentioned but important - do not buy a boat today which you think will fit your cruising/sailing plans way down the road. Buy a boat you will use and can afford to maintain today not one you think you will go cruising in 5-7 years later. You will buy that cruising boat 5-7 years later, just before you're ready to cast off.

[Cadence]

Vet the surveyor. They can be excellent or useless. I might ask to contact some of their prior customers. It's your money spend it wisely.

[cdcorl]

Fresh Water.

[mcon12000]

I agree with the comment about a surveyor is either good or useless. I have acquired enough knowledge that I would only hire one if it was required but that’s me and my comfort level.

Lots of solid advise so I’ll add just a bit.

Check the rudder post and steering system for corrosion and wear. It’s a $$$ after purchase repair and I would walk away from anything in your budget that has possible issues.

Make sure you have enough space to actually be comfortable locked inside on a rainy day or three. Also enough storage which can be a challenge on an older boat.

As for insurance since the hull value is under $30k it may be possible regardless you should be able to get liability rather easily. That’s all you really need for a Marina stay.