Cabin Soles Botched - Little Help?

[Talbot]

on this side of the pond, what we call Linseed Oil darkens over time, while Tung Oil does not

yes,, but was not talking about the effect over time, merely the effect of putting a tung oil based product on the wood - it will darken it more than a varnish without the tung oil - but a varnish without tung oil will not last nearly as long (catch 22)

hence the reference to Coelan

[Alan Wheeler]

Never heard of Coelan, so look into it. OK I understand a little more of what you want to achieve. Here is a highly recomended product. (by me) Deks Olje. You can get this stuff in two finishes. Mat and Gloss. The Gloss is still an oil, but it dries with a gloss finish. It is designed for inside and out. You coat it on by simply adding coat after coat, till the timber won't take anymore up. Teak ofcourse, will only need a few coats. Dead simple to apply and you can't or shouldn't be able to stuff it up.

[Jentine]

Sean,
It is a floor to be walked on. Treat it like one. You are not finishing a piece of funiture. The best treatment for floors is varnish and the best I have used on floors is Ultimate Sole. I can understand why you are hesitant to use a varnish after your last encounter, but it is a simple process if you follow the required steps. The instructions for a perfect finish is on the can of varnish.
I will e-mail the finishing information if you want it. Oil, IMHO, would be a mistake.

[Talbot]

Wheels,

from reports of a niumber of people who have used coelan, they are very pleased with the results. It particularly stands up well to major changes in temp, which a lot of varnishes have difficulty in copeing with. It will also allow any residual damp to permeate through the coating to escape instead of creating that white bloom on the inside.

[Pblais]

While the look of the oil would be nice if the floor was solid wood I think a 1mm veneer is not going to withstand any abuse what so ever and a hard surface finish is perhaps better. Oil won't give the wear and tear that a hard finish would. Sere the floor solid teak then I think a lot of oils could come tp mind and work well.

The link to Colean was very interesting. It seems like an ideal marine product.

[ssullivan]

Verdict's in.... I had just oiled a small section to see what it would look like. Since I had a section oiled, I figured "why not try to damage it?"

I dropped tools from the same height/orientation onto the varnished teak and holly (1mm) cabin sole as well as the oiled teak and holly (1mm) cabin sole. I also did controlled pressure drags over both surfaces with opened wire cutting dikes.

Smacked screws into both with a hammer.

Guess what? The varnish didn't stand up to the abuse any better than the oiled teak (only oiled with teak oil... not even the tung).

In fact, if you follow my scratches that go right through both types of surfaces at the same "gouge depth", you are less able to see the scratches in the oiled teak than you are where the varnish is scratched. Probably since the varnish reflects so much light.

Right now, I can see millions of little tiny scratches all over my sole from sand or something dragged in on people's shoes. I'm sure most of us could see that. I had that in my old boat. Given that the oiled floor barely shows serious gouges (until you are very close and inspecting it on your hands and knees), I'm going to say that the oil is MORE resistant to scratches causing eyesores on the 1mm teak and holly sole.

From where I am sitting (nav station) I can see the results of my destructive testing from across the salon. It looks bad... real bad where it is in the varnish. I can't even see the gouges in the oiled teak, except the one that goes down further than 1mm (and into the next ply). That gouge looks equally as horrible in the varnish and the oil.

So... based on this experimentation. Tung oil it is. Thank you very much for all of your input. I think it is a misconception that varnish protects a floor any better than a good oil. It actually makes small scratches MORE visible. If any charter guest digs a hole in our floor large enough to get to the 2nd ply in the plywood, they're buying it, plus $100/hr labor charges. That's in the damage policy.

Thanks again for the contributions to this thread. I would never have discovered that oil could be used if it wasn't for this thread.

[Alan Wheeler]

Told ya so
Oiled floors will stand up well to abuse. It is indeed a very protective product. I have had a little timber work experiance. Nothing formal, mostly hobby, but I got to work under a very experianced guy that could work miricles with our native NZ timbers.

[markpj23]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I wonder if it might accumulate dirt, used on the floor?

That was my first concern as I read through this... Sean don't overlook this possibility. You may end up with ground-in oiled dirt that you'll have to sand deeply to remove.

[Pblais]

Mark,

I'm not sure that dirt is more of a problem. I just think that the general wear on the floor is going to make the veneer wear through. Oil makes the wood resilient but as it wears it gets thinner. You can't eliminate wear with any finish you just make the finish thick enough to stand up for a long period of time. On a solid wood oiled floor it's not a problem. I have friends that have a natural wood floor in most of their home and they use paste wax machine applied twice per year and it holds up exceptionally well, but it is a solid wood floor. The pores of the wood do seal well and I can't see how it is any less trouble to clean.

So while a heavy scratch test may seem like it is equal I don't think that the pitter patter of 10,000 sandy feet will be as kind. I have a high gloss sole that is about 15 years old. The wood is fine but I have places where the finish is getting thin. This was a well done teak and holly plywood Sole but the basic wear has ground off the finish to the point that places are not as glossy as they used to be - but still it looks OK after all this time. Places with less wear look brand new. With an oil floor the wear remains the same but instead the veneer would be worn perhaps too thin and not repairable.

[Alan Wheeler]

The wax finishes are a very good way of protecting the floor.
Having a bit of experiance with Native timber floors and a little experiance with teak, I don't think Sean will have any problems at all. Cleaning is dead easy. No, dirt doesn't get ground in. It is also very simple to wash with a sugar soap before you re-oil or wax. PLUS and this is where I am mostly coming from, Sean has a limited amount of time and money this time around. Next year, hopefully, that maybe differrent, money wise at least. But especially in his off seaon when he has a little more time, he can then look at having the floor proffesionaly replaced. So this may or maynot be a long term situation.

[ssullivan]

Exactly, Wheels. This fits our situation extremely well, since I am getting short on time and $$s. The interesting thing about the Tung Oil is that it actually IS like a urethane or varnish. It shouldn't be confused with teak oil and the like. It's what's called a "drying oil", meaning that it dries on, like a urethane or other finish. It does indeed create a surface between the wood and the "walker." So, it will wear down just like varnish would.

Instead of a nasty chemical reaction taking place where you need a respirator in order not to die, Tung Oil simply oxydizes to form long hydrocarbon chains that polymerize together, just like urethane would.

It's actually no different, although it's softer, not poisonous, and will not create a shine. I have a gallon of the Tung Oil now, as well as a citrius solvent to thin it. If I'm not going to have to wear a respirator to use the tung oil, I figure why mix it with poisonous mineral spirits?

Interestingly, both the tung oil and citrus solvent are approved by the United States FDA as non-toxic.

The stuff is actually very interesting. If this application goes well, we may seal up the entire interior with it eventually. I think we are off commercial finishes for good. If tung oil was used by the chinese to finish furniture and floors since before Christ, I figure it's good enough for me.

And I guess... if for some reason it doesn't work out well, there is nothing preventing me from using a teak cleaner to take off the oil and varnish it up.

[Brent Swain]

The tropical hardwood companionway step that I gave five coats of varnish to last summer looks like hell now. The woodgrain linoleum that I put down 22 years ago and haven't done a thing to looks great.Give style over substance priorities a miss. Go for linoleum and spend your maintenance time cruising.
Brent

[ssullivan]

Brent - You know... I would do that in a SECOND if this boat wasn't also my source of income.

I'm a practical guy, and a big fan of not doing boat work 24/7, especially since that's all I've been doing for months.

Once we "retire", I'll try out other methods. For now... the Tung Oil is already on!

We are walking on it now (first coat only) and it's holding up well to water spills, etc... We put down new teak and holly in the salon, and put in the RV-type tables that you can remove and stow. VERY cool. They have a flush mount that allows you to have a hole in the floor that you can't fall into, but allows you to stick the table base in.

I'd show everyone how this came out, but... no gallery yet.

[Sandero]

I am late to this thread, but you can of course, puchase marine plywood with teak and holly veneer. These are pricey.

I would make 1/4 templates for the entire layout and have a wood shop cut all your panels. It is essential to line up the holly stripes so you will have to do some real planning. In fact showing the stripes on the 1/4" templates would serve you well.

Fit the unfinished panels on your "floors" and make sure they align and there is sufficient room for expansion.

Next locate and mortise the lifting hardware. Install it and remove it after verifying it all works.

Bring the panels to a wood shop that does spray finishing and provide them with the finish you want along with the specs of how many coats etc.

Have them make a sample for your approval. Cut the approved sample in half, keep one and give one to the finisher to work from.

The wait... The panels should be properly dried and cured... and wrapped for delivery. You may have to have them numbered. Install them... using screws for the fixed panels with all panels in place. You may want to use a bung to hide the screw and then do some local finishing.. carefully.

But there are some very attactive flush screws / bolts. If you intend to remove them, you might want to you bolts with threaded inserts. Alignment is critical, screw first and use the screw hole to locate the insert.

Good luck!

Jef
sv Shiva
Contest 36s

[AllAboutMe]

A second vote for Ultimate sole. Buy their sanding primer, and the finish. It takes four coats to really do it right, but it can be done in a couple of days. You REALLY don't want to pull your sole out and try to lay in a new one. Leveling is almost impossible, and getting it out without damaging the work you've already done would also be impossible. It's amazing how many screws and nails there are holding that sole in place. Sand and refinish....Ultimate Sole....Ultimate Sole.....Ultimate Sole.....and no, I don't work for them, I have just used the products and I've been really satisfied.
Larry Wilson
1977 Columbia 8.7 (original teak sole)