Can we talk about jury rigging an emergency rudder

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Nauticus

I wonder what the Manatee Crew would do?

most expedition boats have brick shithouse strong rudders. I know ours was, all-aluminum, solid 6" diameter shaft, 10mm think skins with lots of ribs - we hit a granite ledge in Maine with it and just put a small dent in the bottom tip on the blade, and we bounced (up and down in swell) on some rocks on it in Iceland with no apparent effect. Lower nearing was very large uhmw sleeve with an aluminum tube carried well above waterline with ring frame and lots of gussets.

It would be pretty hard to imagine breaking it, but I did have plans in case we did - wind vane with its own auxiliary rudder, which in testing rudder was pretty small needed to have sails really really well balanced for it to work without the main rudder providing balance. And drogue solution all tested also.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

Yea, e-glass with resin injection. Can be quite good. The ones I have seen break were 'Monday faults' (bubble or similar in the injection probably because someone was not paying attention). They would be better if they used S-glass, but that is the sort of extra cost that Beneteau does not indulge in, and generally, they are more than fit for purpose as they are. There was one of the 50's which had its rudder hit by a whale (in the Pacific), and the hull cracked around the tube while the rudder held (boat sunk, unfortunately).

Good to know - that tube certainly looks very strong!

As to the hull cracking, apparently earlier boats had the outer sleeve pretty well unsupported. Ours has a very substantial ply 'shelf' glassed in at the top of the sleeve, and just under the quadrant, with multiple vertical support panels then going down the bulkhead and bonded back into the hull.

I think they worked it out .

[sailorladd]

A strong bucket trailed aft can be used as emergency steering as well, although I have never had to resort to this.

I feel quite strongly about the design of some rudders in boats that are designed and used as cruising boats...spade rudders being the worst of all in my opinion.....

[JohnHolland]

Has anyone actually tried their wind vane survo-pendulum rudder (eg Aries, monitor, hydrovane) to steer with? I've heard it suggested but not heard of actual experience.

[davidjade]

Originally Posted by JohnHolland

Has anyone actually tried their wind vane survo-pendulum rudder (eg Aries, monitor, hydrovane) to steer with? I've heard it suggested but not heard of actual experience.

Scanmar makes an emergency rudder add-on for the Monitor: https://www.scanmarinternational.com/emergency-steering

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by JohnHolland

Has anyone actually tried their wind vane survo-pendulum rudder (eg Aries, monitor, hydrovane) to steer with? I've heard it suggested but not heard of actual experience.

We had a wind pilot pacific plus, which has an independent auxiliary rudder. In theory you could use that rudder for emergency steering. In practice the aux rudder was not very large (although larger I believe that the monitor emergency rudder). It really needed the main rudder in place and locked near centerline to work. If the main rudder was say jammed off centerline the aux rudder would not be big enough to counteract it, and if the main rudder was lost you would need to sail quite slowly with quite small sails to be able to balance the boat and not overpower the rudder (we tested both those situations). This aux rudder would help quite a bit in conjunction with a drogue steering set-up adding some additional turning/steering effect. All in all, it is a possible emergency solution, but not very satisfactory.

[Fi2010]

A speed-limiting drogue is the simplest to use for emergency steering. Assuming all you have to do is secure two short rodes to the deployed drogue. The rodes are then ran up to your port and starboard cockpit winches. Pull to port and the boat turns left. Pull to starboard and the boat turns right. Downwind, upwind it doesn’t matter.

It’s best to use a speed-limiting drogue designed to be towed right behind your boat. This type of drogue does not have any shroud lines, which permits the use of really short rodes. The shorter the rodes the faster you can pull the drogue to one of the boat’s quarters to turn the boat. This is important for tacking sails.

Some storm drogues require weights for emergency steering or are designed with shroud lines that can tangle if the drogue is too close to the boat. Speed-limiting drogues with shroud lines have to be kept further away from the transom, meaning it will take much longer to turn your boat.

We suggest checking out youtube for additional videos demonstrating emergency steering with drogues and/or contact manufacturers for more information.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by JohnHolland

Has anyone actually tried their wind vane survo-pendulum rudder (eg Aries, monitor, hydrovane) to steer with? I've heard it suggested but not heard of actual experience.

Two problems with this:

1. the rudder is too small
2. The rudder is free to swing (not steer)

Monitor makes a kit to solve both problems. I have concerns about the overall strength of the system

[wingssail]

The best solution is one thought out ahead of time and well engineered, also tested in heavy weather (with a slack main rudder).

The cassette system is by far the best. You can install the cassette into the gudgeons with little issue because it is above the waterline and out of the waves.

You can slide the emergency rudder down into the cassette and you have a rudder.

You need to plan how you will turn it (bell crank?)

It does not need to be full size, you just have to reduce sail.

A sister ship lost their rudder so that was why I thought about how to do it.

I reinforced my Monitor frame to handle the loads and engineered a cassette system, but never built it.

I also had my rudder post strengthened. But I never did anything further.

Got away with it.

Luck I guess.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

It is three pieces - some pintle mounts usually permanently attached to the transom.

Then a cassette you attach to the pintle - is a photo of an example. This can be mounted when you go to sea, but I think more usually when you want the emergency rudder in action.

Attachment 244845

Then you slide a rudder blade down into that cassette. This all will depend quite a bit on your transom shape and how you want to control the emergency rudder - but here is an example.

Attachment 244846

this spare rudder blade is often stowed under a bunk - it is usually pretty long like +2m

Beautiful!

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by Greg Mason

the interior rudder post separated, leaving him with a useless tiller in his hand
...
went over the side tied to the boat with a lifejacket on and a brace an bit. After boring a hole through the rudder, he passed a line through and heavily knotted it on each side. It took about 40 minutes.
...
used the rope through blocks tied to the rudder, and here I am.

I've read accounts of people who had a hole pre-bored in their rudder, ready to go, for situations like this.

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by David B

Easy to say from behind a keyboard I know, but abandoning a perfectly good boat due to rudder loss is a bit hard to swallow.

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

It seems the "rudder failure" is the #1 cause of distress calls. What is not know is the #1 cause of rudder failure?

Heh.. this reminds me of a (polite) argument I'm currently engaged in, in the comments of a YouTube video..

IMO, the #1 cause of rudder failures (of the kind that lead to abandonment of the vessel) is spade rudders. So far as I'm concerned, if it's almost impossible to fix at sea, it's not seaworthy by definition.

Originally Posted by Seighlor

In my situation, the mostly "submerged object" was a whale, unseen at 0200 hours. The rudder post was bent and the rudder jammed against the hull, unable to be turned.

With the clarity provided by daylight, it was determined we could lower the blade an inch by loosening the two nuts at the top of the stock.
...
Though the stock was bent, steering was normal once the blade was clear of the hull.

I rest my case... with a transom-hung skeg-mounted rudder, this would not even have been an issue.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by JohnHolland

Has anyone actually tried their wind vane survo-pendulum rudder (eg Aries, monitor, hydrovane) to steer with? I've heard it suggested but not heard of actual experience.

Yes.. one of my first deliveries was a 31ft steel boat that had a wind vane steering system, I had a tiller pilot rigged fore n aft with a pulley system rigged to the axis and the wheel locked central..
Steered beautifully even under motor which I did for most of the trip from Agua Dulce to St Katherine's Dock in London.. it sailed like a Slug..

[Sputnik]

I like this arrangement, the thought occurs to me that it is only necessary to have one side that is adjustable. ie: fix the port side and vary the stbd side.

Originally Posted by thinwater

I believe drogue steering is the practical answer for most of us. It works. If you don't have a drogue you can rig it using fenders and anchors. You safely can rig it in foul weather. A solid spare rudder is better, but that's an undertaking. A jury oar in bad weather is usually wishful thinking.


Practice is the key.

[campbdon]

On a dinghy it's certainly possible by balancing the main and jib. The bronze 4 certificate for CYA tests this skill. On a larger boat maybe possible also. This video shows how a $10 bucket dragged behind helps...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NNAVnv-PNI

DonC