Cargo Ship on Fire

[Martin Sigge]

Considering what's going on in Ukraine, I have a hard time feeling very sorry for him at this moment.....


In the USA Today article one gentleman was quoted as saying he got a call from the dealer telling him his $123,000 Boxster Spyder, that he's been waiting for since August, was possibly on fire drifting in the ocean. OMG!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by boat driver

To bad you quote knowledge by ignorance and without reading the final investigation. Perfect example of why social media is so persuasive yet incorrect.

So you have additional info that others don’t and instead of sharing you call them ignorant.

[GordMay]

The “Felicity Ace” sank this morning, according to a press statement.
Initial reports from the local salvage team state that the vessel had sunk at around 9AM local time having suffered a list to starboard.
The last vessel position was around 220nm off the Azores. The salvage crafts will remain around the area to monitor the situation.
MOL Statement 8 - March 1/22 ➥ https://www.felicity-ace-information-centre.com/

More reporting [Bloomberg] ➥ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-in-rough-seas

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

My best guess is that the ship is going to sink at sea because the powers that be don't want evidence of the fire dangers of EVs coming to port.

"Throw another 10,000 tons of water on the decks Charlie, she hasn't rolled over yet."

I told you so.

[goboatingnow]

My best guess is that the ship is going to sink at sea because the powers that be don't want evidence of the fire dangers of EVs coming to port

free tinfoil hat winner

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Adelie

So you have additional info that others don’t and instead of sharing you call them ignorant.

The info was there for anyone to read - some chose just to speak non sense rather than seeking the truth
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=100209

[Cadence]

I hope no one in the forum has stock in the insurance underwriters. Although I'm sure they still make money. The good part is no lives were lost and I didn't have a Porche onboard.

[Checkswrecks]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

My best guess is that the ship is going to sink at sea because the powers that be don't want evidence of the fire dangers of EVs coming to port.

"Throw another 10,000 tons of water on the decks Charlie, she hasn't rolled over yet."

Hanson's Razor is most applicable to the situation and it states: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

As a retired NTSB investigator who has investigated a number of burned EVs, airplanes, etc, I was with you right till you went into the conspiracy thought.
The fire on the ship went very much like the one that destroyed the big parking structure in Stavanger two years ago. Stavanger was initially blamed on an EV till further investigation blamed the likely initial vehicle to be an older diesel.


The short version is that with the vehicles so close and any tilt to the deck/floor, the fire runs a daisy-chain from vehicle to vehicle. The difference with the involvement of the EVs is the burn duration. A petroleum fire basically is intense but short, while an EV can stay burning or smoking for hours and we 've worked a number which have re-ignited. Plus and in addition to toxic constituents, the smoke can contain hydrogen, methane, acetylene, and other flammables that the slowly burning cells just keep adding to the problem.

It was pretty easy to look at the extent of paint burned from the side of the Felicity Ace to tell that the fire inside went to the water line, and maybe below.



Plus, those fireboats were putting on water for DAYS and the ballasting controls of the ship would no longer have been functional. No wonder it rolled & sank. Add this to the previous car carrier fires and my guess is the industry is being pressured by the insurers to re-evaluate their fire protection.

[hpeer]

Or stop shipping EV’s?

In todays environment shipping is taking a beating and there will likely be a push to move manufacture closer to markets.

Just wondering how all this interconnects.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Or stop shipping EV’s?

In todays environment shipping is taking a beating and there will likely be a push to move manufacture closer to markets.

Just wondering how all this interconnects.

I don't think this will have any impact on shipping EVs.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I don't think this will have any impact on shipping EVs.

Regardless of the ignition source, when an EV battery goes into thermal runaway, it is almost impossible to contain. Look at the video, and multiply that effect by about a million for a shipload of EVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVp_ppkk-sk

The problem may be minimized by reducing the SOC of the EV batteries to the minimum necessary to get the cars on an off the ship, but I don't think that even disconnecting batteries is going to solve it.

If I was crew on a car carrier and they wanted me to take a load of EVs, I would just say no.

I guess combat pay might overcome my reluctance. My boss was in the merchant marine during the Korean war, and they got paid an extra $1000 apiece for every round that hit within a mile of where they were unloading in Korea. The entire crew was topsides with binoculars and clipboards.

[Checkswrecks]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Regardless of the ignition source, when an EV battery goes into thermal runaway, it is almost impossible to contain. ...

Actually, if the firefighters can access the bottom of the vehicle or opening in a damaged battery case, it's close to the same as putting out a gasoline fire with foam. Literally done in minutes. Trained firefighters can extinguish an EV with hundreds of gallons, whereas untrained firefighters keep ineffectively going through 20-30,000+ gallons.*

This is a reason I and others have been lobbying for some of the Infrastructure Legislation money to go to firefighter education. With the big push on new EVs, batteries, and charging stations, this is a missing link.

The guy in the video did the right thing in using cooling water but the packaging of the bicycle battery is quite different than that of an EV. The aluminum bottom surface of a EV is a far beetter conductor for cooling with a higher aspect ratio (thinner layer of cells to height of the case) and even a smaller fire hose (1.5") will put out a lot more cooling than the garden hose generally spraying a plastic case.


* The problem with shipboard firefighting is all the water/foam comes from sprinklers above which does little or nothing to cool a battery mounted against the bottom of an EV.

[donradcliffe]

https://cfpa-e.eu/container-puts-out...electric-cars/

It would require significant modification to the car storage areas, and there is still the little matter of the hydrogen fluoride gas. I would want a tested and proven system before I let an EV on my ship.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

The info was there for anyone to read - some chose just to speak non sense rather than seeking the truth
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=100209

Thanks for the links, Ping. I'm finding the interviews with the pilot and others quite fascinating reading... many hours to go.

I can recommend these to anyone with an interest in how such investigations are carried out, or just is interested in things maritime as experienced in the commercial world. I'm learning a bunch.

Jim

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I guess combat pay might overcome my reluctance. My boss was in the merchant marine during the Korean war, and they got paid an extra $1000 apiece for every round that hit within a mile of where they were unloading in Korea. The entire crew was topsides with binoculars and clipboards.

Interesting, I would have thought that a better use of their time would have been actually unloading the ship.