Cat capsizes off Croatia

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by fxykty

That’s just silly. With a performance cat there are trade offs but none are deal breakers once you move up in size. Our cat has just under 4000kg between lightship and full load - that’s heaps, though for example won’t accommodate a centre console dinghy, an ice maker, or a 1000 litres of fuel.

There was a Delos YT video a while ago with a Catana 43 owner who didn’t allow paper books and they weighed provisions and gear coming on board and removed things if it took them over a certain weight. That wouldn’t be fun for long term cruising.

So smaller performance cats may not be your style, but plenty of people can and do live happily with 1500 or 2000 kg of loading. But if you do want a full size fridge then a performance cat below 60+ feet is not for you.

To carry your SUV analogy further, what about a Porsche Cayenne?

That's a SUV, like a Catana, not a performance cat, a condo with daggerboards.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Yup. (Direct response to nope)

If it wasn’t pushed hard, it wouldn’t be upside down. Obviously there was too much sail area for the wind conditions. No matter what they were. Therefore it was pushed too hard. Pretty cut and dry. I don’t have any idea how you can argue that it wasn't pushed too hard. It was pushed right over.

Let me try to decode!

1) "To push hard" means actively driving the boat close to its limit, ie making an active decision to go there.

2) "To be pushed too hard" is what happens to the boat even when no human actively wanted to go there, but due to foreseeable or unforeseeable consequences ended up there anyway.

So, I think you don't have to push hard to be pushed too far.

ANYWAY. How absolutely wonderful that they are all ok. Scary stuff.

[CatNewBee]

Croatia is a dangerous sailing ground.
This was on our first year when we sailed from France to Slovenia, a single gust, lastet only a few minutes and then heavy rain and 20-25kn of wind, later I saw on my instrumets a max of 92.4kn. Didn't felt like 92kn, but it was quite intense.

We had the sails down already and motored anticipating bad weather. Sea was flat almost, and you see a line of boiling water approaching. It was quite a bang. I can imagine when you have full sails up and get hit from the beam, something will give up - most likely the rigg or the sheets/sails, but on a light cat a capsize is for sure possible.

[smj]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Croatia is a dangerous sailing ground.
This was on our first year when we sailed from France to Slovenia, a single gust, lastet only a few minutes and then heavy rain and 20-25kn of wind, later I saw on my instrumets a max of 92.4kn. Didn't felt like 92kn, but it was quite intense.

We had the sails down already and motored anticipating bad weather. Sea was flat almost, and you see a line of boiling water approaching. It was quite a bang. I can imagine when you have full sails up and get hit from the beam, something will give up - most likely the rigg or the sheets/sails, but on a light cat a capsize is for sure possible.Attachment 262452

I can’t imagine any boat would survive with a dry mast in 92kts. of wind on the beam under full sail.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by smj

I can’t imagine any boat would survive with a dry mast in 92kts. of wind on the beam under full sail.

Every monohull that is in seaworthy condition. Once they heel 90 degrees, all wind pressure is removed from the sails and they still have much positive buoyancy.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Every monohull that is in seaworthy condition. Once they heel 90 degrees, all wind pressure is removed from the sails and they still have much positive buoyancy.

Agreed. It wouldn't be fun and there would be damage but most cruising monohulls would come through OK.

I've seen dayboats and racing monos with no side decks get in trouble but not cruising monos.

[smj]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Every monohull that is in seaworthy condition. Once they heel 90 degrees, all wind pressure is removed from the sails and they still have much positive buoyancy.

Tell that story to the family of those that died on the Pride of Baltimore.

[Pandor]

The Pride of Baltimore wasn’t really seaworthy from today’s standards. More like the standards of early 1800’s. That is why when they built the new one, they changed the design to incorporate those features and add reserve buoyancy.

[noelex 77]

For anyone unfamiliar with the Pride of Baltimore a photo is shown below:

I think the accident investigation concluded the limit of positive stability was only 76° . Of course this is nothing like a cruising monohull where the AVS will always be well over 90°.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Pandor

The Pride of Baltimore wasn’t really seaworthy from today’s standards. More like the standards of early 1800’s. That is why when they built the new one, they changed the design to incorporate those features and add reserve buoyancy.

She was deemed seaworthy but tender.

[smj]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

For anyone unfamiliar with the Pride of Baltimore a photo is shown below:



I think the accident investigation concluded the limit of positive stability was only 76° . Of course this is nothing like a cruising monohull where the AVS will always be well over 90°.

At well over 90 degrees the mast would be wet? I’ve seen monohulls at least dip there spreaders if not the mast with no sails up in 90 knots. Would all seaworthy monohulls recover from a knockdown before their sails filled with water?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by smj

At well over 90 degrees the mast would be wet? I’ve seen monohulls at least dip there spreaders if not the mast with no sails up in 90 knots. Would all seaworthy monohulls recover from a knockdown before their sails filled with water?

Even if you dip the sails and fill them with water, you should still be able to get the boat back up. Just no guarantee you'll still have intact sails when you do.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Even if you dip the sails and fill them with water, you should still be able to get the boat back up. Just no guarantee you'll still have intact sails when you do.

Hopefully, but the mast would be wet, right? [emoji4]

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by smj

Hopefully, but the mast would be wet, right? [emoji4]

And the panties too....[emoji12]

But no, I don't think they would have diped in our case, because it was not sustained 92kn, just a blow for a few seconds and then in the 20-30kn, the momentum before a heavy boat heels is quite a lot. But it can break stuff easily, and if you were heeling already and have some waves, sure.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by smj

Tell that story to the family of those that died on the Pride of Baltimore.

What have I done to you to get this aggression? Just because I’m right and you don’t like it?

Wtf, why would I talk to that family? How you even manage to come up with this? You Googled until you found something to counter me?