Coastal Sailing vs. Blue Water Sailing

[fgd3]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Are you really using an anecdote about a Hunter 25 losing it's rudder to bash full keel boats?

lol

No, I'm not bashing full keel boats, merely illustrating thomm225's implication that you can't sail a fin keel/spade rudder boat without the rudder is incorrect.

Fabbian

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by fgd3

No, I'm not bashing full keel boats, merely illustrating thomm225's implication that you can't sail a fin keel/spade rudder boat without the rudder is incorrect.

Fabbian

Then make THAT your argument.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Are you really using an anecdote about a Hunter 25 losing it's rudder to bash full keel boats? ... lol

Doggone if ya can't read some crazy stuff on here. Just when you think you've heard most of it or at least read about it.... along comes someone to lecture us dummies on wot is really wot.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by fgd3

No, I'm not bashing full keel boats, merely illustrating thomm225's implication that you can't sail a fin keel/spade rudder boat without the rudder is incorrect.

Fabbian

The reason I say that is because a guy that had quite a lot of experience on his rather large Beneteau with fin keel and spade rudder could not make it in using just the sails when is rudder became disabled (or lost) north of the Bahamas.

Since he was there and I wasn't I decided it best not to argue with him especially since he and his crew were in that condition for days in rather heavy seas.

I've also heard others say the same thing about fin keel/spade rudder boats.

Plus, I believe Colgate also said that a full keel boat is much easier to steer using just the sails than a fin keel boat.

[thomm225]

Coastal Sailing:

I sailed South from Onancock, VA to Kiptopeke on Saturday in front of a pretty strong NW Wind of 20-25 knots. I was the only boat to leave the safe harbor of Onancock that morning because I wanted to get out of the creek before the winds really picked up from the passing front to catch a ride 50 miles South.

To get out of the creek safely, I had to use my mainsail because I had to sail quite close to the wind in the channel at times to get out and due to the waves I knew the engine would need help.

Once out it was so rough I didn't want to go forward to lower the main for my downwind/broad reaching run so I had to fight the tiller all day.............for 6 hours none stop while the boat continually wanted to round up. But at times I had to head up some to avoid running aground. You don't have that problem in blue water I don't guess.

Every time a wave broke from behind I just headed low quickly. It was a hell of a workout, and the first time I ever saw my bow pulpit railing below the waves forward.

So I wanted to see how a boat similar to mine with the proper sails up (head sails only) would perform in similar conditions. This guy is dealing with larger seas than I had to deal with but the waves in the bay were much closer together. Plus the autopilot would not handle the conditions. Also the Twister is maybe 3,000 heavier than my Bristol.

This then is a Twister 28 (Full Keel) on a fast downwind run.

TWISTER 28 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Fast Downwind Sailing - YouTube

[snoozy814]

As mentioned, people are doing ocean crossings in all sorts of boats. I know of a Merit 25 (we have one we use for racing) that sailed to Hawaii....something I would NEVER do in that boat! For blue I honestly look for deep cockpit if possible, good tankage/storage for long passages, wind/solar capacity if possible, water maker, easy reefing of mainsail and refrigeration if possible. Have good friends who spent a year on their sailboat doing a major passage around south America w/no refrigeration, limited tankage, etc. and while they had a blast (and were much younger than I am) they did miss a lot of the things on larger, better equipped boats. Again, what you're comfortable on and trust to handle weather is important.

Haven't done it yet myself, but many friends who have done ocean transports and have heard easier in many ways than coastal...less to run into!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by snoozy814

As mentioned, people are doing ocean crossings in all sorts of boats. I know of a Merit 25 (we have one we use for racing) that sailed to Hawaii....something I would NEVER do in that boat! For blue I honestly look for deep cockpit if possible, good tankage/storage for long passages, wind/solar capacity if possible, water maker, easy reefing of mainsail and refrigeration if possible. Have good friends who spent a year on their sailboat doing a major passage around south America w/no refrigeration, limited tankage, etc. and while they had a blast (and were much younger than I am) they did miss a lot of the things on larger, better equipped boats. Again, what you're comfortable on and trust to handle weather is important.

Haven't done it yet myself, but many friends who have done ocean transports and have heard easier in many ways than coastal...less to run into!

That Merit 25 was taking part in the Singlehanded Transpac race which is usually a downwind starboard tack run most of the way

Other interesting small boats that did it are a Cal 20, Moore 24, Express 27 (several times), Catalina Capri 25, Olson 30......

check historical link below for others .......

https://www.sfbaysss.net/archive-sht...tsThru2012.pdf

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

In the common usage, Water boats">blue water boats are slow heavy full keel boats that are miserable to handle in marinas or other tight spaces, you live in a deep dark cave with only a few tiny windows way up high. They are generally the worst option for 95% of cruising which is anchored out or moving along a coast (which most blue water cruisers do a fair bit of) as they sacrafice living accomodations to a large degree. The saving grace is on the open ocean, you can furl the sails, tie down any loose gear and brace yourself on the cabin sole and the boat will take care of itself. Except for a few small number of purists, no one is buying these boats anymore.

There are also flimsy coastal cruisers that have no buisness more than 5 miles from a port but reality is most boats will handle far more than you can. If you just want to run down the coast, thru the canal and cruise the caribean, you are much closer to the coastal cruising anyway.

I kinda like this -- probably no perfect answer, but dial back the time machine a few decades (before the Westsail 32 for instance) and many, indeed most of the successful ones, were just coastal boat handled/modifed by skippers who knew pretty much what they were doing -- Moitessier and Blyth, and maybe Sir Francis Chichester being some of the first notables who morphed over into more specialized vessels -- others like Tangvald never did that I'm aware...

Probably much depends on the skipper IMO... as always.

BTW -- even with the above description (and its fairly accurate portal), I've always lusted after a WS32... or even a Hanna Tahiti which makes the WS32 look down right nimble I'm told