Code Zero ?

[Jon D]

Caught this a little late, while we were cruising much like Beth and Evans we kept our #3 on the roller. We found that the #2 was too much sail enough of the time to be practical. The issue became when the wind was lighter do we change sails or pull out the Asymetrical [flown from a short sprit to get better gybing angles] or spend the money and get a Code 0. We elected not to spend the money and there were enough times that we were motoring when we could have been sailing if we had that sail. The discussion on how to rig is exactly what I envisioned and it's nice to know my thoughts were in line with experience. Probably would not have rigged the 2:1 but we do use high tech line for the spin halyard which would have gotten the tension to a reasonable level given we are not racing.

For background the Moody does have a tall rig with a larger boom so the mainsail area is increased from standard. This makes the #3 with a full main work effectively in more than 10-12 knots true. Under that we really want a larger sail going upwind or close reaching.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day All,

Evan, thanks for the tutorial on Zeros. We have given them a miss so far, but your comments suggest that Insatiable II could profit from one.

Two questions come to mind:

When at sea, do you tend to leave the furled 0 hoisted?

And when you do strike it, how do you store it?

The only one we've seen locally was a real big diameter coil when taken down, and storage was a problem (this on a Radford 45 with a fairly tall masthead rig).

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Manly Qld Oz

PS
Sure wish that we'd had longer to chat when we met you in Pt Cygnet, Tassie a couple of years ago!

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

When at sea, do you tend to leave the furled 0 hoisted?

The basic answer is no. We take it down when we are done with it. We will leave it up if we are sailing thru a squall or other obviously temporary wind increase. But I prefer to get it down if the wind has built and we don't know when it will decrease. It's just nicer and easier to get it down in lighter winds when the foredeck is dry.

And when you do strike it, how do you store it?

We have two stowage methods. If we are in an area where the zero will get used a lot we have a zippered deck bag (about 2m long lashed to the hand grips on the foredeck) and we flake the furled sail back and forth into that. On passages like from St. Helena to Antigua it will live in the bag on deck the whole passage (when it is not hoisted). In areas of stronger winds and stormier weather, we have a quite big mesh bag that clips around the edges of the foredeck sail hatch (24" square and 2.5m tall). We open the sail hatch and just lower the furled sail down into the bag (and hoist it right out of the bag.

Sure wish that we'd had longer to chat when we met you in Pt Cygnet, Tassie a couple of years ago!

I am hoping to get back to Tasi sometime. We had some lovely cruising and met wonderful people there.

[dennisail]

I just found this old thread. I want a new main and headsail + light air sail for my hunter 40.5. (bluewater cruising)

I have been talking to Dave from Island Planet (who is very helpful and who I recommended). Dave has been telling me the benefits of the code zero, one of which is the problem of reefing a large overlapping genoa. A partially rolled up genoa has a terrible shape and you are better off with a smaller one when the wind pipes up, we all know that. You will be very happy if you have a say 105% head sail when it gets blowy out there. But you will not be happy with the small headsail in light wind. This is where the code zero steps in. It can even sail upwind to 45-50% so can be used upwind in light air, and best of all you will actually use it since its so easy to get into action on the soft furler.

The cruising code zero seems to have a winder range of sailing angles that the racing version made to satisfy racing rules. It wont sail as high but will sail a lot lower. So I have to make a decision on what size sails to get and if the code zero is worth it.

My other issue is what happens to the code zero on its soft furler when not in use. Does it stay up all the time? Seems the stiff luff rope would not lend itself well to storage?

Also my boat is fractionally rigged but has a fairly tall rig for a cruiser however the rig is fractional so the max hoist is not really that big since the spin halyard comes out just above the forestay. But comparing to other prod boats, the max hoist for the spinnaker is actually comparable to 42 foot mast head versions of Beneteaus etc. So I guess the size of the sail would be quite large still.

Or should I just get a normal asymmetrical and slightly bigger headsail?

Thoughts?

[limejucer]

Me Me Me I want more Info too.

[Bash]

Another alternative would be a small gennaker that would serve as your genoa when sailing off the wind, which is when you need the power of a larger headsail. I opted to go with a North 3G a couple years ago, and am thrilled with it. Look it up on their website.

You do not want to go with a genoa with your current rig. You have outboard shrouds, which means that anything beyond a 110% genny is not going to be able to be trimmed in closely enough to point well.

[dennisail]

How do you raise your gennaker? BTW, the hunter 40.5 does not have the B&R rig with outboard shrouds and standard headsail is 135%.

[bewitched]

The code zero sail has moved on quite a bit from the .... dare I say it??.. ..IRC rule beater...Indeed, the boat I race on (Achambault 40 - modern, wide transomed, non overlapping jib) has a code zero that also doubles as our A3. Such have been the developments in design and materials over the last decade or so.

So how would this racing sail transition to the cruising environment? These are my thoughts:

It's use as an A3 wouldnt be very helpful. Not many cruising boats will put up such a sail when the wind is 25kts+ true.

It's light wind, upwind performance is undeniable. At about 50 to 70 and less than (say) 7kts true, this would be the sail of choice on most boats.

However, although the sail can be used over a greater range ... 40 to 80 was mentioned earlier in the thread...... at the extremes of this range, other sails are likely to start to become the optimal choice.

So the sail does have a somewhat limited window in which it can be used, both in terms of wind angle and wind speed... As the optimum choice. This is why in racing circles, it is a very little used sail. (And the fact that race courses tend to favour upwind and downwind courses and not reaching stuff that skews IRC in favour.of WLL)

My personal opinion is that this sail could (or maybe already has??) developed into a very useful cruising sail by utlising an endless furler for easy handling and dropping the IRC measurement in favour of putting more power up top to enable the sail to bridge the gap between an IRC definition Code Zero and a spinaker proper.

This could lead to a non-white sail wardrobe consisting of a 'cruising' code zero on a furler and a heavyish asymetric in a sock. Two easily handled sails covering a fairly large sway of wind angles and wind speeds that aren't really covered optimaly by Jibs or Genoas.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by dennisail

How do you raise your gennaker? .

We use a sock.

[swagman]

Our experience with a Code 0 was not good, albeit it was a super shaped sail.

We had a Hanse 461 which had a 90% blade self tacking headsail and full sized assymetrical spinnaker. With a 25 metre rig and big main, it stormed along upwind and down - very fast boat. It lost out however close reaching, especially in soft winds and short seas. We crsuied two up so multiple sails was not an ideal solution.

Not sure why but we decided on a Code 0 on a Facnor self furler. As I said before, gobsmackingly nice shaped sail which when the winds were sub 7 knots and forward for the beam, allowed us to get up to and sometime more than 7 knots boatspeed.

But.

It could not stay up when not in use. The mylar was too easy to damage with UV.
It was bulky to store, once furled and folded into a bag it took up more room than the spinnaker. It could not be used if the wind got above 8 knots - developed too much power and difficult two handed to get furl ok and get down.

We then invested in a 120 % genoa with a foam luff and from that point, the Code 0 got very very little use.

Our 120% genoa also had to be sheeted outside our shrouds, which was OK when reaching. When beating / racing we furled it to 105% which allowed sheeting inboard. On reflection, the difference in performance between the two was so small we should have gone for a properly cut 105%.

As a result of what we found, thats the advice I'd give you. Get a foam luffed tri-radial 105% genoa.

Cheers

JOHN

[swagman]

Oops.

Sorry. I did not read all the posts before explaining our experiences and making my suggestion above. You say you already have a 135% headsail so no sense in going with a smaller sail - although my points about the code 0 are still valid.

Cheers
JOHN

[dennisail]

I ended up getting a code zero style sail on an endless furler. Its 1.5oz nylon so wont be used to the utmost when going up wind. We chose this so we could get a smaller genny made, 110% with a higher foot and clew. This genny will suit our requirements of an offshore sail more than a 130% deck sweeper.

We hope this will allow us to sail more effectively over a wider range of wind speed. We will also hope to be using it downwind like a large genoa. It wont work as well as a spinnaker downwind, but it will work much better than a spinnaker left it its bag, which is where it would stay (with only Nikki and I to set it offshore).

Code zero is 573sq foot.

110% Genny is 324sq foot.

Main is 427sq foot.

See above post for sail plan.

[Wombat]

As someone that has used a Code Zero over the last 5 years, my advice would be to be very careful of the sail material used. To hold shape when sailing in the 60 degree awa range, sailmakers will suggest using a material like DP's CZ (for code zero). This material is very, very, UV intolerant. The problem is that if you put on a UV cover (usually a light sticky back that is then sown), the sail material will fail along the transition, due to a hinge effect. The alternatives are to use “ink” UV, transition with a “wave” to spread the loads, or no UV cover at all. I would recommend the last as the best choice. Take the sail down when not being used and put it away from the sunlight.

My Code Zero was virtually rotten after about 110 hours of daylight use. I spoke with the DP technical people and they are doing some UV testing to determine the amount of UV exposure the CZ material should be able to take before the strength is compromised.