Collision and Dismasting

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I'm curious why a fishing vessel would run dark. What are the reasons?

Commercial fishing is highly competitive and is treated as a zero-sum game. They don't want their competition to know where they are, where they have been, or where they are going. They don't want to give away information about what they are catching through their maneuvers.


That's usually all there is to it, although there are surely also cases where they are concealing their movements because they are out of compliance with one or another geographical restriction, or are engaged in activities other than fishing.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Commercial fishing is highly competitive and is treated as a zero-sum game. They don't want their competition to know where they are, where they have been, or where they are going. They don't want to give away information about what they are catching through their maneuvers.


That's usually all there is to it, although there are surely also cases where they are concealing their movements because they are out of compliance with one or another geographical restriction, or are engaged in activities other than fishing.

Do we have any commercial fishers on the forum, who would like to address this comment?
I've passed thousands of fishing vessels in N America and don't recall ever seeing any run dark. The lights give them quite a bit of "privilege" and as I said, don't have a great range of visibilty, so not likely a great giveaway to the competition. Shrimp trawling wouldn't seem to lend itself to "hot spot" strategy - imho.

I've seen plenty of sampans in the S China sea going dark, or near dark lit with a lantern or two, but that's not topical.

[sailorboy1]

Well if dark and you don't see them, how you only they are/were there?

I have thread running on 3 forums and many people have posted they come across dark FV. So they happen.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Well if dark and you don't see them, how you only they are/were there?

I have thread running on 3 forums and many people have posted they come across dark FV. So they happen.

Driving big grey ships (sometimes doing fishery patrols) through major fishing grounds around four continents. Part of the job tying radar contacts into the visual picture.

[Ungvar]

I fished for one season about 15 years ago, skipper. They needed a near coastal master to run the boat and I needed a job.

Boat was about a ~80 ft stern trawler. The whole operation was fairly professionally run. Pretty good electronics. I wouldn't have run the fishing boat without lights any more than I would run a tug or a tour boat without lights. There would have been no benefit to it. Enforcement agencies and other fishing boats all have RADAR.

One thing I will say is it was difficult to keep a RADAR watch when setting or hauling nets, or it was on that boat. The boat had to be driven from a remote helm station on the working deck when handling nets. Once nets were on the bottom, navigation watch was done from the bridge.
We could and frequently did alter for sailboats who either didn't see us or saw us or stood on any way.

On another but similar topic, I have navigated RAM vessels with science gear over the side. On some older science ships station keeping is done from an auxillary helm station that has a better view of the gear and the leads on the cables than the primary helm station on the bridge. Maneuvering these ships out of the way of sailboats with gear down is tricky and not always practical.

[skipperpete]

I worked as a deckie on east coast trawlers here in Australia and as an engineer on Gulf trawlers in the gulf of Carpentaria to gain seatime so I can answer a few of the misunderstandings regarding how they work and navigate. Like in the TV series “deadliest catch” there was always a watch at the helm, sometimes a very good alert, experienced and qualified watch-keeper, sometimes a new crew gaining seatime for his own masters certificate. I don’t know much about US trawling but here in OZ if the gear is down and the trawl underway its imperative to have an alert watchkeeper in case one of the boards or the net gets hooked up on the seabed, this results in loss of steering control and usually swing rapidly across the prevailing current. This can be fatal as the trawl arm submerges and pulls the boat under unless the crew can shoot away more wire or cut the trawl wires.... the watch is imperative. Other times when the nets are up and the catch is on the sorting tray there are periods where the skipper is on the aft deck and the boat making way on pilot, this is a bad time, working under dazzling floodlights sorting , cleaning up and getting ready to shoot the nets away for the next shot. During all of these operations the vessel movements are highly erratic and rarely slow as the skipper decides whether to go over the same ground again if the shot was good or steam rapidly to a different spot decided upon by thought processes not understood by me. Once the nets are back on the bottom the deckies hit the sack and the skipper takes the watch with a coffee and cigarettes, 70% power, deck lights off, dry exhaust roaring loudly ...... really loudly... a plotter and radar closely watched to record the tracks of the rest of the trawlers ( if they go over the same ground immediately it means a good school of prawns) ....and endless hours of painfully boring radio chat not unlike Vogon poetry. I’m not proud of my time on trawlers, its very destructive of the seabed and basically none of the by catch survives.... if its still alive going down the chute it gets eaten by the sharks and porpoises as soon as it hits the water.
The whole point of this rave is that trawlers behave erratically and can never be trusted to maintain a course, nor can they quickly alter course..... nor might they even want to and I hope it helps other cruisers avoid a repeat of Sailorboy1’s unpleasant and damaging encounter.
As an afterthought, the dangers created by the myriad varieties of fishing, trawling, towing and cargo vessels in Asian waters really raises the bar for watch-keepers and the variety of vessel lighting arrangements is mind boggling, not much of the plain old red and green, plenty of the christmas lights though.... often flashing.... or completely dark��

[Ungvar]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

dry exhaust roaring loudly ...... really loudly...

Yes, that has been my experience too. Loud. Not a bulk carrier running heavy fuel loud, but screaming diesel and boom box playing Metallica or similar loud. Audible for several hundred meters in light conditions.



The vinyl dodgers do keep us warm and dry, but they don't always help with our vision and hearing.

[sailorboy1]

It has been 2.5 weeks since my collision and a little while ago duringd di0nner I emotionally crashed and burned crying.

So please let me know if the topic is done. In couple days the insurance e is going to tell me their decision

No matter what 15 years of planning is over for us. When this thread is done here so am I

[dannc]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I'm curious why a fishing vessel would run dark. What are the reasons?

Another poster mentioned waiting for a drug drop, I can also see dropping off or picking up persons illegally (illegals or wanted criminals).
...

I don't know how common it is now a days, but back in the 1980's fishing vessels would go fishing for "square groupers" off of Florida. One would think that is not easy to do these days with current technology.

Within the last 6-12 months I read about a trawler that would bring in drugs from offshore and it was in GA, SC or maybe NC. Can't remember exactly but it was farther north than I had ever read about. They were doing this many decades ago. Or so they said.

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It has been 2.5 weeks since my collision and a little while ago duringd di0nner I emotionally crashed and burned crying.

So please let me know if the topic is done. In couple days the insurance e is going to tell me their decision

No matter what 15 years of planning is over for us. When this thread is done here so am I

That is ultimately the tragedy of this event. I’m sorry your dream was taken.

[JPA Cate]

There's no shame in grieving a loss, Don. It's huge when one loses their boat, and with it their dream and their plan. Your good lady wife is also probably feeling a whole bunch of very uncomfortable emotions.

The collision was a wounding event. It takes time to heal. Give yourselves time, mate, it's only a little over two weeks. The process will keep on going and feelings will change over time.



Ann

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It has been 2.5 weeks since my collision and a little while ago duringd di0nner I emotionally crashed and burned crying.

So please let me know if the topic is done. In couple days the insurance e is going to tell me their decision

No matter what 15 years of planning is over for us. When this thread is done here so am I

Hi Don.. as a fellow member of the club I know a little of how you feel..
I know my competence confidence took a big hit, went through a phase of depression interspersed with extreme anger.. and it was not even my boat, so what you feel has got to be worse.
On the bright side its looking like you will have a speedy resolution and will be able to move on much quicker.
The 2.5yr wait for a one sided Spanish Maritime Court investigation did little to improve my disposition and I still experience flashes of anger over both the accident and the stitch up (in my opinion) court proceedings.
Wishing you all the best for whatever path you next choose to take mate and the same to the missus..

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It has been 2.5 weeks since my collision and a little while ago duringd di0nner I emotionally crashed and burned crying.

So please let me know if the topic is done. In couple days the insurance e is going to tell me their decision

No matter what 15 years of planning is over for us. When this thread is done here so am I

Your location is listed as “heading south”, looks like this happened in St Augustine, I’m guessing your trip was just getting started.

Accidents trigger survival instincts, even if no one is hurt. Take a beat. Don’t do anything you can’t undo over the next 3-6 months. You could come back next year (or the one after) and cruise around the Bahamas with very little night sailing required.

Or you could decide you’re over it. That’s fine too. Just give it some time before committing either way.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It has been 2.5 weeks since my collision and a little while ago duringd di0nner I emotionally crashed and burned crying.

So please let me know if the topic is done. In couple days the insurance e is going to tell me their decision

No matter what 15 years of planning is over for us. When this thread is done here so am I

Sad day in your world, for sure.
But you will be missed here. Your knowledge and support is great. Your spreadsheets on real-world costs are without peer.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It has been 2.5 weeks since my collision and a little while ago duringd di0nner I emotionally crashed and burned crying.

So please let me know if the topic is done. In couple days the insurance e is going to tell me their decision

No matter what 15 years of planning is over for us. When this thread is done here so am I

Sorry to hear the dream is over. Especially in this manner.

The emotional crash should be expected and a good way to get rid of bad emotion.

Hope you can salvage the dream as time passes and this incident moves farther into the past.

Later,
Dan