Comments on my Schooners blue water readiness?

[captmikem]

Tatheelrod,

I love Schooners. That is a pretty boat. If you are going to leave this boat in a marina and take her sailing once every couple of months I would suggest against her. But if you plan on living with her and truly sailing her... Sounds like a great adventure.

Ever hear of Wander Bird? Beautiful Schooner, check out this video made a few years ago.
Take note of all the safety gear for the kids, and how much they seem to be a part of the voyage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKS-bGcoZW4

M

[FabioC]

Of all the potential issues that you have mentioned, the only one that makes me uncomfortable is the lack of lifelines. Personally, I would not go without lifelines, even with a crew and even for coastal navigation. I think lifelines are an essential safety feature (even jacklines, obviously a must offshore, are not sufficient by themselves, still you want to have all possible "features" in place to reduce the likelihood of somebody actually going into the water, even if tethered), although I can understand that they may not be aesthetically pleasing...

The other potential issues, such as narrow beam, low freeboard, or single-handing a schooner, are non-issues in my opinion: yes she may be a little wetter or somewhat less comfortable than other boats (arguably), but still sea-worthy, so certainly not show-stoppers.

[nwdiver]

Set up jack lines so you clip in when coming up into the cockpit, skip the lifelines, always use the jack lines (rig them so you can’t fall over board), sailing is simple go from A to B don’t touch the bottom AND don’t fall off the boat......

The comments above are valid about easy access to weather info, go no go decisions are easy to make, not like the old days when you could get caught out.....

Look hard at the rig and simplify as much as you can with a small schooner, get boom tents for the boat to cover as much as possible in warmer climates, keeping the sun off the deck will make to more comfortable, get good hats to give you shade when sailing.....

Or sell it and get a Pacific Seacraft 37 then you will have your wife with you and a more comfortable cruising boat.....

[Dougtiff]

I have no stanchion's on my Gaff rigged Ketch, when i purchased the boat, it had stanchion's and life line's, but poorly attached to the cap rail, being a wooden boat, rot was an issue, and i couldn't figure out how to do the attachment another way, and look good, so , after looking at some other set up-set's, i went with a life-line, attached from bow to stern, that was waist high, and could be removed when not underway, later i will attach a net to the life-line, the whole set up in my opinion safer than the typical" to low" stanchion/life-line, as it's higher, easy to remove when needed, look at the old sailing ship's, they had no stanchion's, only line's rigged for heavy weather

[Mike Banks]

I would want to know what kind of glue was used in the sandwich construction. Old boats used a variety of glues--with luck yours is an epoxy resin vacuum bagged bond. It was probably designed for offshore use--but if you wish to be sure--get a proper survey done by a competent qualified marine surveyor who specialises in this kind of construction. It will cost you maybe a grand or so--but it will be the cheapest insurance policy in which you can invest. Also you will need it for insurance purposes.

[StoneCrab]

Beautiful boat!

[Michael Pope]

I would go --one lifeline 33'' and a slack line (20mm plus) that hung over the side from Midships aft held up in long loops by knitting wool every fathom or so . Rigged that when the wool was broken
by tight line with your foot on it gets your belly button up to the rail. I have found the adrenaline kicks in then and you cannot remember just how you did it. You have to maintain your Knitting, weekly but is better than trying to fight your way under or over a double lifeline by your self. Used this on deliveries often. Never lost one yet. An old Genoa sheet works well heavy enough to just hang there. NO I will not insure you but expect a bottle of Bombay if it saves you Mike Pope

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

I promise to do my best to not be overly verbose however it’s not one of my strong suits🙂 I would love thoughts from experienced offshore sailors. I’d like to determine how well the design of my 40 Ft schooner is suited for extended cruising? Let me share specific information and then a few comments I think pertinent.

She is a “one of”, but built by a log time respected builder in Annapolis MD.
LOA 44’, LOD 40’, Beam 9’ 6”, Draft 4’ 8”, built 1979, major refit 2005, cored hull and deck. Wood sticks, booms, and gaffs. Teak decks installed during refit in a laborious well thought out way in 2005 refit. Minimal electronics however if I “head off” I would invest in radar, AiS, EPIRB, and at least laptop navigation. She has VHF and auto helm, and a 50 HP Yanmar installed in 2005.

I’d likely do the major passages singlehanded, so I will strongly consider self steering. Cruising grounds would surely be central and western Caribbean, possibly Bermuda, and on the bucket list is Nova Scotia.
I’ve sailed for 40 years however it’s all been coastwise. We’ve bareboat chartered numerous times, and I have my 50 Ton USCG Inland Captain License with sail auxiliary endorsement. I am 60 years old

My biggest concerns are:
1 Her narrow beam for 40 ft. She’s initially tender but does settle in rather nicely.
2 No lifelines. It would be a rather large investment to install, which I don’t mind considering, but aesthetically I’d feel bad about it. Is a thought out method for jacklines and a way to get back on board if overboard and single handed enough?

To state maybe the obvious plusses I know advantages are:
1 A schooners ability to consider multiple sail configurations, with no one sail insurmountable for a singlehander.
2. A classic overhang stern with an afterdeck and rather small cockpit.

I’ve attached some pics. In numerous ways she is my dream boat, however when purchased the cruising I describe here, and doing so full time weren’t factors in the decision to buy her. Now I’m ready. I’m ready to the point if I should find a more suitable boat then Ill do so. I WANT to think the narrow beam, minimal freeboard, and lack of lifelines are offset by the flexible sail flying options. Am I correct in this line of thinking?

I really look forward to the comments and thoughts zi hope this generates!

Aside from no safety lines, I see no grab rails either and jack lines couldn't hurt especially if you plan on single handling her.

[kavw]

Very pretty boat, I'm glad to have seen this thread.

I say this was 2020, so thought still recent enough to be worth responding.
I happen to own a similar design Tom Colvin 40' schooner, Doxy design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f12WL-NcVLo

Is yours sea-worthy enough? -- sure in the right hands most boats are sea worthy. Are lifelines critical? Yes, but for passage one can attach to aft cleat/gallows, go forward clove hitch at each shroud, and make of forward somehow, on the staysail stay under its boom for example. A low line anda higher line. My jib/yankee has a downhaul led back to port shrouds so I don't go forward on boom to bring it down, I only go lash it to the bowsprit when convenient/safe to do so.
Falling off boat---use a harness, make a jackline that runs between each mast and from fomast to forstay.
Narrow beam--good for initial stability. But reduces storage though, if you check out some of the videos I did on youtube, you can see the ease of walking around on the wide side decks and ample area for storage/boxes/fenders/lumber/outboards/deck chairs/ etc...

our boats are quite close in how laid out with a few differences, none of which really affect how sea worthy your boat is but may give you some other considerations. I've seen pics of your boat online, your forward area is a v-berth cabin? Correct me if I am wrong, mine is a bulk head with deck access. In which is several spare anchors, spare anchor rodes, BBQ, tools, spools of line for shore lines, a number of buckets, rolls of mosquito screen and a few 20ftx20ft tarps.
Outboard of your two salon seats is your hull, mine is a further 18" of storage in which are lots of food and sails.
The seat you have midships, looks like it could be better used as a 6'6 pilot berth the rest boxed off for storage.
Granted, my boat was designed for cold weather cruising, diesel stove and keel cooling engine -which I am soon converting to dry exhaust also.
I hear you about the sun cover, and the low boom! I raised my boom enough to make a hard top that I could stand under when at the helm, onto which is a 350watt solar panel.To make up for sail area, I lengthened the boom a little, and lengthened the gaff about 4 ft.

I'm certain that in the right hands your boat could take a lickin' and keep on sailing, I would only question how long you plan to be off-grid for and carry suitable stores and spares for such a venture.

I bought mine off someone on this forum, and while I am not the artist to maintain the aesthetic as well as he did, I certainly maintain the boat well and get a lot of miles out of her when I can. People telling you that your maintenance time is high are kind-of-right but not. Do good varnish on the brightwork then a few layers of awl-grip tan brown or cream white, looks great from far, and decent up close and will last years and years without the annual varnish rigamarole, yet can be removed if desired in future.
Teak decks are nice to look at, but do you need them? They really only need wetting and the odd mopping with some powdered laundry soap anyway, don't stress about them if they are superficial and not the real deck.

Varnished masts are beautiful I used to have some on a 60' woodie, but oil saturated and rubbed once in each port with a dose of petroleum jelly or mineral oil has served a lot of cruisers fine.
Don't paint, you need to see the condition of the spars!
A lot on your boat is bronze, you don't need to polish it until boat show/regatta time.

Anyway, I've typed a lot and need to be off. Hope this provides some food for thought.

Kris

[Bowdrie]

Be still my heart,, what an oh-so-sweet underbody, L. Francis would approve, John Alden most assuredly.
I second the previous posts about rigging lifelines around the boat that are high enough to be worth a d**n.
The standard 24in. factory jobs are more for looks,, they're just at the perfect height to cause you to go over them if you're standing up.
But hey,, when the weather gets bad you find yourself crawling around anyway.
I've often remarked that once a boat reaches the size that a single-hander or short crew would want a divided rig, (due to sail sizes,) the staysail schooner is the way to go,, most modern sailors have no idea how easy they are to handle.
Now, your boat being gaff-rigged will take somewhat more effort, but that's not a deal breaker,, what is needed is the peak halyards rigged so that they can be slacked quickly and easily without much, if any, running around, to "scandalize" the rig, dumping the wind out of the upper half of the sails if beset suddenly by the wind.
Anyway, when the wind kicks up your boat/rig will do just fine under foresail and forestaysail alone, with main and jib struck.
Don't worry, (I know, easy for me to say, right,) that boat/rig will get you there-an-back just fine, without a lot of the drama that some "high strung" boats can throw at you.
Edit, addendum; having a vang rigged from the peak/end of the fore gaff to a block on the mainmast, down to the deck will allow you to control the fall-off of the fore gaff/foresail for better windward performance.

[Pelagic]

Delete

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

I love this forum! Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply. I have responses here that apply to different things from some of your posts, Plus a few more things I feel like sharing.

A few of you pointed out the actual pluses to such a narrow beam. It’s interesting that I really knew that but I suppose unknowingly have been influenced by all of what do you see being built to cruise now. Those are definitely the far end of the spectrum from my Schooner.

She is a bit of a wet ride which is what prompted owner number two (I’m number 3) to add the dog House. That does help some. At this point I think enough to want keeping it even though it makes going below a little more difficult, and I’m not sold on the look. Regarding the doghouse, cockpit configuration, low free board, etc., I wish there were a feasible way to have a Bimini top that also aesthetically fit with the boat. Neither I nor a reputable canvas person have been able to come up with something that works. The boom is just a little low to put in a Bimini that gives you practical space in the cockpit. I inherited with her an awning that works fine when at anchor, but it goes over the boom thus has to be removed every time you take a sail. The lack of a good solution on this concerns me because if you recall my intended cruising grounds for the most part are in tropical areas. The lack of the Bimini, the minimal amount of cabin space due to the narrow beam, and the awkward bending down to move from one Cabin to the next because of the bridgedeck are things my wife detests about this boat. If it were up to her we would have an island packet 350. I don’t suppose I would mind that however she also tells me she has no plans to ever get out of the side of land, and that she is happy to and would look forward to flying to meet me when I reach certain destinations and sail around that region on day sails and visit different anchorages. In numerous ways, I’ve always been a “Renaissance man.” Even though I know they are advantages to the production boats, I have a need to be different. It wasn’t intentional but not surprising that my last three boats including Stella Polaris were one of 19 built, one of 25 built, and now the only one built. Forgive me for rambling. I guess I needed to get that out :-)

Speaking of aesthetics one responder cautioned me to not let aesthetics get in the way of seaworthiness and safety decisions. I needed to hear that. You give me a thought I need to continue to contemplate as I work towards my goal. Having said that however in direct response to the lifeline question I posed, the responder who pointed out the very high bulwarks I have does make a great point. Another helpful point in that vein are the very wide decks I have.



Excellent points were also made about the increased level of fatigue when sailing at severe heel angles. That is something I must consider however with the exception of Bermuda and possibly Nova Scotia, I’m not looking at very long offshore passages with most of the other trips. It is interesting that just a couple of days ago I watched one of the many excellent YouTube sailing videos and a single handler from San Diego to Hawaii pointed out how sore and tired he gets from having to balance and brace himself almost all the time as a single hand on now that I think about it, a Rhodes 30 narrow beam boat. Even if one is in reasonably good shape before departure I suspect offshore sailing is a situation where you may be using the same muscles you try to work out in the gym and during your stretching, you are using them in a different way and you will notice it.



One responder said if I come up with a reliable method for getting back on board from a single-handed overboard situation to please share it. I will try it out and if it works I will definitely post the plan and pictures.

I have a schooner with similar features, a bit longer at 62ft

The boat has circumnavigated, but my petite Filipino partner and I just sail her alone in SE Asia

Here are a few potential solutions to consider:

ALL sails are roller furling, so we can easily control heel angle on building winds.

Positioned behind the mast, so would not be that difficult to retrofit on your wooden masts

You loose some points to windward with the loose footed sails, but all is safely controlled from cockpit, which if you are single handed, may justify the modification.

When close hauled, the heel is not excessive and with furling very easy to balance.

I had the same Bimin problem, so I just raised the boom up (8") enough for clearance. Again... Your wooden mast gives you that simple versatility

My cockpit is well protected and has a step up, so our ride is very dry.

You should definitely consider lifelines for the safety points already made, but also for some heavy duty shade cloth to keep the majority of beam spray out
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