Considering simplicity on sailing boats

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

It would be near crazy to remove most of the systems from my boat. Why?

Am I an outlier with these kind of thoughts?
Any others who like to make comments, for or against? Or with different perspectives?

If you don't like the systems on you boat just remove them. Till then this is just another "the old way is the best way" thread while you continue to do it "the new way".

[thomm225]

Actually, it's about combining the old with the new depending on what you need and can maintain.

I can easily maintain my solar charging system, the chart plotter I built, replace the inverter if needed, and most anything else on my old boat.

I wouldn't call a solar charging system old though or a chart plotter with AIS display.

[Calif.Ted]

I've never been clear why an inverter is desirable, what do people need or use on a boat that won't run on 12 volt?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

I've never been clear why an inverter is desirable, what do people need or use on a boat that won't run on 12 volt?

All kinds of stuff. Coffee maker, electric stove, microwave, TV, ease of plugging in a laptop for work, etc. I've done plenty of boating without an inverter, but after having one for a while I wouldn't want to give it up, it's too big a convenience. And in some cases for devices that are only used occasionally or used both at home and on the boat, it saves buying a more expensive 12v version as you can just plug in a common 120v item.

[Foswick]

It is silly, to me, what is commonly considered "essential" these days. What used to be a large or mid-sized cruising boat is now "small". Many consider a chartplotter to be basic navigation equipment. Radar, AIS, refrigeration, etc ...

And, I am not comparing to days of yore. I am talking about just a few decades ago. True, the world has changed but not nearly as much as sailors' expectations. Robin Graham is a friend of the family, and I often think of his journey. He does not look back on that experience and think, "If only I'd had a fully integrated cockpit platform and cup holders."

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

I've never been clear why an inverter is desirable, what do people need or use on a boat that won't run on 12 volt?

Need and use are two different things.

I use a hand blender in my kitchen that only runs on 120V AC. I have a coffee bean grinder that runs off 120V AC - I had a hand grinder, it was so bloody slow I gave it away to someone and went back to my electric grinder. I have an electric clipper I use to keep my beard trimmed that only runs on 120V AC. I carry electric tools like drill, grinder, sander, electric planer, more, that all run off 120V AC. I don't like battery operated tools. But the one battery operated drill I do carry needs 120V AC to charge the battery.

Of course I realize on this one I'm rather off the beaten path, but I carry a stereo microscope on my boat and the light source for working with it runs off 120 V AC.

There are chargers that plug into 120V AC that charge cell phones much faster than running them off 12V charging. I have both options on my boat.

I run Starlink off my 120V AC system. Yes, I know I could go through the work to convert it to 12V DC and in fact may do that one day but as I was not confident Starlink would really work off shore I didn't go through that trouble. As I'm now a Starlink convert, so to speak, I may well do that conversion.

I'm sure there are more things I run off 120V AC I'm forgetting.

I sail because I love to sail. I've sailed boats that didn't even have an electrical system. I set my boat up to be what I want it to be. Your boat - your choice.

dj

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Foswick

It is silly, to me, what is commonly considered "essential" these days. What used to be a large or mid-sized cruising boat is now "small". Many consider a chartplotter to be basic navigation equipment. Radar, AIS, refrigeration, etc ...

And, I am not comparing to days of yore. I am talking about just a few decades ago. True, the world has changed but not nearly as much as sailors' expectations. Robin Graham is a friend of the family, and I often think of his journey. He does not look back on that experience and think, "If only I'd had a fully integrated cockpit platform and cup holders."

Hahahaha - Love this one!

It's like the person posting - I'm going to buy my first boat, I've never sailed. What equipment MUST I have to sail on Lake Wobegon... And then all these "sailors" pile on saying the litany of electronics... Makes me think of the list from John Harries - the five essentials for an off-shore cruising boat (could also be applied to any sailboat really in my opinion)

1) Keep the people on.
2) Keep the water out.
3) Keep the keel down.
4) Keep the mast up.
5) Keep the rudder on.

dj

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Foswick

It is silly, to me, what is commonly considered "essential" these days. What used to be a large or mid-sized cruising boat is now "small". Many consider a chartplotter to be basic navigation equipment. Radar, AIS, refrigeration, etc ...

Certain items off that list like radar aren't necessarily 100% essential, but they're high desirable to have, particularly if cruising in areas that are prone to frequent and persistent fog.

I'd bet if you showed that modern tech to sailors from 70 years ago they'd be asking "how can I get this on my boat?" Some tech items are for convenience, but some like radar are a bit different. It provides some convenience functions, but its primary purpose is to help allow safe operation of the boat in a wider range of conditions than is possible without it. In some foggy cruising grounds at certain times of year, radar can be the difference between only getting a few hour opportunity to move during daylight once or twice a week vs just going in the fog.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by dlj

It's like the person posting - I'm going to buy my first boat, I've never sailed. What equipment MUST I have to sail on Lake Wobegon... And then all these "sailors" pile on saying the litany of electronics...

Well, in our own life, I'm on Team Simple, but to argue the other side, I occasionally make pocket money by helping install/fix boat electrics and electronics. So... load'em up, I say.

[Foswick]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Certain items off that list like radar aren't necessarily 100% essential, ... [but] I'd bet if you showed that modern tech to sailors from 70 years ago they'd be asking "how can I get this on my boat?"

That's the seduction. Take GPS, for example. At face value, it seems like a no-brainer that you would have and use it. But, the more you use it, the more you are dependent on it. I use it. But, is it essential gear? Nope - just nice to have.

Radar? I have it but, if I didn't, I probably wouldn't bother fixing/replacing it. I sailed for years without it and didn't think I needed it then. Now that I have it, it is not suddenly more important.

I think when people describe "essentials", they confuse their own fears, expectations, and desires with actual needs. I think it is more productive to talk about each item in terms of what it does for you, and what you must do without it. GPS, for example: We can describe what it does and, if you choose to not use it, it doesn't mean you can't cruise. It just means you'll have to do without those benefits or to gain those benefits through other means. Same with radar ... or anything.

In reality, good seamanship is WAY more important than any piece of equipment and, unfortunately, much less emphasized in the community.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Foswick

That's the seduction. Take GPS, for example. At face value, it seems like a no-brainer that you would have and use it. But, the more you use it, the more you are dependent on it. I use it. But, is it essential gear? Nope - just nice to have.

Radar? I have it but, if I didn't, I probably wouldn't bother fixing/replacing it. I sailed for years without it and didn't think I needed it then. Now that I have it, it is not suddenly more important.

I think when people describe "essentials", they confuse their own fears, expectations, and desires with actual needs. I think it is more productive to talk about each item in terms of what it does for you, and what you must do without it. GPS, for example: We can describe what it does and, if you choose to not use it, it doesn't mean you can't cruise. It just means you'll have to do without those benefits or to gain those benefits through other means. Same with radar ... or anything.

In reality, good seamanship is WAY more important than any piece of equipment and, unfortunately, much less emphasized in the community.

I agree, that's definitely a trap many people fall into. They try to use the gear to make up for a lack of skill rather than using it as a source of additional information or an assist in high workload situations to supplement their skills. Having all of the fancy gear doesn't make for a good boater unless they understand what the gear is doing for them, what it is and isn't capable of, etc. Things like radar, AIS, etc. don't remove the need to look outside, unerstand where you are and what's around, etc. They just provide information that you might not otherwise have available for decision making.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

All kinds of stuff. Coffee maker, electric stove, microwave, TV, ease of plugging in a laptop for work, etc. I've done plenty of boating without an inverter, but after having one for a while I wouldn't want to give it up, it's too big a convenience. And in some cases for devices that are only used occasionally or used both at home and on the boat, it saves buying a more expensive 12v version as you can just plug in a common 120v item.

That's pretty much it plus maybe a shop-vac or power drill either straight up electric or to charge the drill's battery.

For me as it mentions above, HDTV, laptop as it is my chart plotter and one of my onboard computers, RPi's, phone charger, fan (the 120 vac fan is more quiet that my 12 volt fan, handheld VHF Battery charger, head lamp battery charger, etc.

[Kettlewell]

GPS, for example: We can describe what it does and, if you choose to not use it, it doesn't mean you can't cruise. It just means you'll have to do without those benefits or to gain those benefits through other means. Same with radar ... or anything.

Not everything new and modern is "more complicated." Take GPS as the perfect example. It is a lot easier in use to get a lat/long using a GPS than it is to take a sextant shot, then calculate a line of position, advance the previous position, and then get a dubious "fix." However, then you can make the simple thing more complicated by adding a chartplotter to it, interfacing with a depth sounder, adding AIS, a radar, maybe the wind instruments. You've taken the simple and made it complicated, which may be worth it to you but does require more time, effort, and money to install and maintain. By the way, some of us who sailed a lot without radar don't put it in the "essential" category. I haven't had one onboard in several decades, yet I still have sailed from Maine to South America and back. I routinely go out in the fog in New England--just used to it I guess. But, I do supplement my navigation with the help of a GPS and the little OpenCPN chartplotter on my smartphone. It is the handiest little fog device there is. Very simple to use to let me know exactly where I am, even when standing up on a cockpit seat to see better. I don't network anything, so these modern conveniences are easy to install, use, and maintain. My main GPS is an ancient unit running onboard since 2005! I consider that reliable.

[MicHughV]

There is something very satisfying about plotting your course on a printed chart vs. watching a blip on an electronic screen..

I can always haul these out and walk down memory lane, difficult to do with a 9" screen.

I have in my collection of charts, many that I copied or traced out from other charts that I needed, but didn't have. These are amongst my prize collection, most all done in different colors depicted land and sea and embellished with my own brand of art work
I am admittedly old school, but am glad that I am.

[Foswick]

This: https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...a-smaller-boat