cost per foot for motorboat

[retiresomeday]

Hello to All!
This is my first post, and I would like to start off by thanking y'all for all the information here on the forum. I have spent a LOT of time reading here lately (my wife will verify that!!).

As my username suggests, I am making plans for my retirement (5-6.5 years off is best guess right now). I live couple hours away from the coast in North Carolina, and hope to see the east coast, Great Lakes, down east circle loop, and Bahamas eventually (not necessarily in that order ).

We went to coast couple weeks ago and looked at sailboats, and had a GREAT TIME! Wife is coming around to idea of extended time on boat, but is nervous (not good word, but best I can come up with) about learning to sail. I have Read A LOT here, and see that ICW, canals, and so many other places where a sailboat is under power anyhow. Right now I could go either way ("what is best deal on boat?"). Thousands of variables, most down the road. But out of the many MANY threads I have read, I couldn't find answer to 1 specific question...give me a minute to set it up....

I read a lot here (and on sailnet- registered there same name) all about sailboats- I just thought for sure that is what I would have. Cost of fuel scared me (still does). BUT... SO MANY threads about sailboats warn about costs going up exponentially for longer boats... along the lines of "need heavier lines...Standing rigging stouter..." and so on.

I understand cost per foot items like painting hull - longer boat more area greater cost. And longer boat means more weight =more fuel. But does a motor boat have any cost that increase exponentially (vs say " $2/ foot dock fee" which is linear)?

I started out on this thinking about a sailboat on the great loop (I don't see us going down the Mississippi- rest of it sounds fun). Then I saw cost of stepping a mast on both ends of canal...that could cover some fuel!!

I don't see wife happy in 27-32' sailboat long term ( though we both REALLY liked a beautiful old 32' sailboat last month ). If I was a betting person, I would put $$ down on a trawler or old motor yacht with "small" diesel/diesels. My next threads will be in engine/ propulsion section. right now? I am enjoying reading here and looking at "boat porn" and doing a lot of daydreaming. But... to focus this post....

What, if any, costs will jump exponentially ( or should I say " non-linearly"?) to go from a say 32/34' trawler to a 36-38-40' ?

Thank you in advance!

(wife ( should I say "admiral"?) says time to run errands...will check back tonight...)

[a64pilot]

Instead of cost per linear ft., it may be more relevant if it were cost per lb or actually cost per interior Cu ft.
a 40 ft boat is seemingly twice as big as a 30, and a 50 almost twice as big as a 40. Beam is to a great extent almost what determines usable room, not just length.

Having said that costs for a motor boat increase roughly just as they do in a sailboat.
most people say be careful cause costs rapidly escalate to try to warn people that just because they can pay the purchase price, does not mean they can afford the boat, especially if they are going to old boats to afford the purchase price of a bigger one.

My theory is fuel is cheap and people are lazy, so sailboats don't sell well, but power boats do. You can't give a Toyota Prius away right now, but let fuel get to $4 a glass again and you can charge a lot more.

However even if you never intended to sail and only want to do the ICW, a sailboat is extremely miserly on fuel, average 40' sailboat may burn on average about 5gls in a day of motoring on the ICW and cover 50 miles.
A power boat will usually burn way more, but may cover half again the distance.

Average 40' sailboat will burn less than a gl an hour in an economy cruise, efficient trawlers may burn three or so gl an hour?
That's a question cause Id like to get some feedback from trawlers owners.

Bottom line now fuel is so cheap that fuel is rarely the driving factor in cost of ownership

[skipmac]

My experience at least in regards to fuel costs, a power boat, if driven at slow speeds comparable to a similar sized sailboat will burn only slightly more if not less fuel than the sailboat would. So go slow, resist the urge to zoom along and fuel costs will be comparable. Also, when you get into cruising sized boats with cabins, galleys and such, a typical power boat will have about 50% more living space than a sailboat of the same length.

For a power boat, like a sailboat, some things have to be bigger and more expensive like dock lines, anchors, anchor windlass but there are fewer things like that on a power boat to deal with. However, if you ever have to rebuild or replace engine (or engines) a lot of the savings will go away.

Other pluses and minuses.

- If you do have a power boat with big engines you can go slow to save fuel but if you ever want or need to go faster you can.
- Sailing to me is almost magical and the moment when you pull out of the harbor, hoist the sails and shut off the engine is wonderful.

[retiresomeday]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Instead of cost per linear ft., it may be more relevant if it were cost per lb or actually cost per interior Cu ft.
a 40 ft boat is seemingly twice as big as a 30, and a 50 almost twice as big as a 40. Beam is to a great extent almost what determines usable room, not just length.



My theory is fuel is cheap and people are lazy, so sailboats don't sell well, but power boats do. You can't give a Toyota Prius away right now, but let fuel get to $4 a glass again and you can charge a lot more.

However even if you never intended to sail and only want to do the ICW, a sailboat is extremely miserly on fuel, average 40' sailboat may burn on average about 5gls in a day of motoring on the ICW and cover 50 miles.
A power boat will usually burn way more, but may cover half again the distance.

Average 40' sailboat will burn less than a gl an hour in an economy cruise, efficient trawlers may burn three or so gl an hour?
That's a question cause Id like to get some feedback from trawlers owners.

Bottom line now fuel is so cheap that fuel is rarely the driving factor in cost of ownership

I agree about cost/cubic ft. I would like to have room for a comfortable chair of MY choosing. You need a BIG sailboat for an easy chair! AND... I would like to sit in it and look out the window. Doesn't seem plausible/possible in typical sailboat of modest size ( I will be asking about "motor sailors" in the future).

I got on west Marine a while back to get a rough estimate for replacing lines on a 40' sailboat... YIKES!!! x hundred feet ofy/z size line = oh my! that would cover some fuel too!
Thank you for the post1

[retiresomeday]

Originally Posted by skipmac

My experience at least in regards to fuel costs, a power boat, if driven at slow speeds comparable to a similar sized sailboat will burn only slightly more if not less fuel than the sailboat would. So go slow, resist the urge to zoom along and fuel costs will be comparable. Also, when you get into cruising sized boats with cabins, galleys and such, a typical power boat will have about 50% more living space than a sailboat of the same length.

For a power boat, like a sailboat, some things have to be bigger and more expensive like dock lines, anchors, anchor windlass but there are fewer things like that on a power boat to deal with. However, if you ever have to rebuild or replace engine (or engines) a lot of the savings will go away.

Other pluses and minuses.

- If you do have a power boat with big engines you can go slow to save fuel but if you ever want or need to go faster you can.
- Sailing to me is almost magical and the moment when you pull out of the harbor, hoist the sails and shut off the engine is wonderful.

I could fill a marina with nice looking 40' motor yachts that are 30 years old and have big v8 Crusaders with under 2000 hours on them. I searched the forums for fuel consumption figures- WOW! half mile/GALLON!!! Silverton and Tolleycraft ( did I spell that right?) have LOTS of them....

I am thinking old Perkins or Ford Lehman....last forever. There are good choices for sailboats also. Volvo is NOT good choice from what I read. As mentioned in 1st post, we looked at a NICE 32' sailboat with engine problems. Everything I read said " don't fix the Volvo! replace it"!


By far the most appealing part of sail for me is NO ENGINE NOISE!!

Thank you for the reply!

[ArmyDaveNY]

As several have mentioned that larger the boat the larger the costs for fitting out. Additionally, the cost for other things go up, in particular the cost for docking, not to mention haul outs. Also, check out insurance costs. Sailboats are typically less expensive to insure per foot.

[Kalinowski]

We own a 42' ketch in Hawai'i and a 28 express cruiser at our lake home in Atlanta. Think about where you plan to cruise and choose accordingly. If the engine dies on the sailboat and you're out somewhere far, you can always hoist the rags.

[Cadence]

Make your other half happy. If the loop is your intention get a "trawler". The " is because they call anything a trawler. Get an easily driven displacement hull. Many of the canals are limited on speed anyway. No need for twins just more fuel cost. JMHO

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by retiresomeday

I could fill a marina with nice looking 40' motor yachts that are 30 years old and have big v8 Crusaders with under 2000 hours on them. I searched the forums for fuel consumption figures- WOW! half mile/GALLON!!! Silverton and Tolleycraft ( did I spell that right?) have LOTS of them....

I am thinking old Perkins or Ford Lehman....last forever. There are good choices for sailboats also. Volvo is NOT good choice from what I read. As mentioned in 1st post, we looked at a NICE 32' sailboat with engine problems. Everything I read said " don't fix the Volvo! replace it"!

Too many generalizations, where the more likely answer to a lot of your questions is "it depends."

Yes, old boats with old gas engines don't get great NMPG. Some of those are viable for some buyers, though, who don't intend to do long distances often... and who don't want to pay the upfront costs for diesels.

OK, so diesels.... in the same boat (Silverton, Tolly, whatever) would maybe get you .75 NMPG compared to those gassers... if you run on plane at intended "cruise" speeds.

OTOH, you can also run either at slow speeds sometimes (sometimes often) and increase NMPG to the 2-4 range. (Sea states aren't always comfortable for that, though.)

And then there are boatloads of boats with Volvo power... which work fine. (I dunno so much about their small ones in sailboats, though.)

BTW, in the grand scheme of things boat, "big" and (gas) Crusader in the same sentence can be an oxymoron. Not meant to be a knock on Crusaders, they just run out of gas (so to speak) once boat size/weight exceeds their capability.

FWIW, cost of fuel is very often NOT the largest expense with a boat. In our case, marina fees, insurance, and some maintenance/service items exceed our fuel bills. We went from Annapolis to Charleston over last winter, something like 1133 miles, less than 1100 gallons of diesel. Marina fees were our largest expense, partly because our timing wasn't great (mostly unavoidable) and it was mostly too cold during the trip to anchor out -- and enjoy it.

-Chris

[retiresomeday]

Originally Posted by Kalinowski

We own a 42' ketch in Hawai'i and a 28 express cruiser at our lake home in Atlanta. Think about where you plan to cruise and choose accordingly. If the engine dies on the sailboat and you're out somewhere far, you can always hoist the rags.

I started this like so many others thinking "blue water sailboat". But the more I thought about it, the less likely it seems I would ever do a long "passage". I think it would be fun to sail 1 time from U.S. to the Virgin Islands NOT taking "the Thorny Path". 8-10 + days depending....THORNY PATH waiting for "weather windows"? That isn't me!!

I got a text today saying that a beautiful 32' Rival is back on market. Wife and I both agree it isn't the boat for us, but we both want it!!! goodness was it nice!
(Craigslist eastern NC...)

I expect to a while before we get a boat ( Unless " perfect" comes along). Right now I am just enjoying the "research". Thinking about another road trip to the coast this weekend

Thanks for posting!

[retiresomeday]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Make your other half happy. If the loop is your intention get a "trawler". The " is because they call anything a trawler. Get an easily driven displacement hull. Many of the canals are limited on speed anyway. No need for twins just more fuel cost. JMHO

Your 1st sentence will be my main objective. My worst-case nightmare scenario is getting a boat and then her deciding she doesn't like it.. After 30 years, I will "hedge/ lean towards" getting the bigger boat just cause my gut says she will not be happy long term in a small one. and I do want to go some serious distances for extended times. About 10 years ago I took 2 weeks vacation together for 1st time ever. WOW did it feel different!!I am looking forward to 3-4 weeks at a time.. or more

I have gone to the various "boats for sale" websites. I Search "trawlers" and (like you said) all sorts of things pop up. Seems to me displacement hulls are few and far between. I did look over the weekend for "downeast" . I think those boats were all displacement hulls, but towards smaller endand often work boats. So the search goes on. And I am enjoying it!

[retiresomeday]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Too many generalizations, where the more likely answer to a lot of your questions is "it depends."

Yes, old boats with old gas engines don't get great NMPG. Some of those are viable for some buyers, though, who don't intend to do long distances often... and who don't want to pay the upfront costs for diesels.

OK, so diesels.... in the same boat (Silverton, Tolly, whatever) would maybe get you .75 NMPG compared to those gassers... if you run on plane at intended "cruise" speeds.

OTOH, you can also run either at slow speeds sometimes (sometimes often) and increase NMPG to the 2-4 range. (Sea states aren't always comfortable for that, though.)

And then there are boatloads of boats with Volvo power... which work fine. (I dunno so much about their small ones in sailboats, though.)

BTW, in the grand scheme of things boat, "big" and (gas) Crusader in the same sentence can be an oxymoron. Not meant to be a knock on Crusaders, they just run out of gas (so to speak) once boat size/weight exceeds their capability.

FWIW, cost of fuel is very often NOT the largest expense with a boat. In our case, marina fees, insurance, and some maintenance/service items exceed our fuel bills. We went from Annapolis to Charleston over last winter, something like 1133 miles, less than 1100 gallons of diesel. Marina fees were our largest expense, partly because our timing wasn't great (mostly unavoidable) and it was mostly too cold during the trip to anchor out -- and enjoy it.

-Chris

RE: your last sentence- do you have any heat in your boat? Is there any good way to heat it (or even part of it?) when anchored? When you stayed in marinas did you heat with electric from the dock?

When I was a teenager I went to Quebec Canada fishing in September (2nd week). It got below freezing! I was in a tent and I was cold! My wife and I both like the new England / Maritime provinces more than Caribbean (The Down East loop interests my wife much more than the Bahamas). So heating boat WILL be on radar...

Have you ever had to take your boat home/to port on 1 engine? The above poster mentioned only needing 1 and I forgot to address that (it's been a long day ). I went back through maybe 8-10 pages looking for "1 engine died" type threads and didn't find any. IIRC, it seems most "engine died" problems were/are fuel related.

Re: Volvo engines. I went looking for info about a specific engine (25 HP IIRC). I was surprised to see how many problems there were with cost and availability of parts for those older engines. That surprised me. if someone here has other experience, I hope they post (or PM me). The boat I was looking at/researching is back on the market- the buyer backed out (after 3 weeks)..

Thank you for reply!

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by retiresomeday

Right now I am just enjoying the "research".

That's a good place to be. Useful to think about how you ight use the boat... and then what kind of features might help the boat work best for you.

Originally Posted by retiresomeday

About 10 years ago I took 2 weeks vacation together for 1st time ever. WOW did it feel different!!I am looking forward to 3-4 weeks at a time.. or more

I have gone to the various "boats for sale" websites.

I remember how wierd our first 1-day vacation felt. Think it was about 5 years before we retired...

One of the better shopping sites is yachtworld.com.

Originally Posted by retiresomeday

RE: your last sentence- do you have any heat in your boat? Is there any good way to heat it (or even part of it?) when anchored? When you stayed in marinas did you heat with electric from the dock?

Have you ever had to take your boat home/to port on 1 engine? The above poster mentioned only needing 1 and I forgot to address that (it's been a long day ).

Re: Volvo engines. I went looking for info about a specific engine (25 HP IIRC). I was surprised to see how many problems there were with cost and availability of parts for those older engines.

Yep, we have AC with reverse cycle heating. Electric, works when outside water temps are above about 42°F... and water temps were OK for it on that trip... but that would have meant running the genset all night long and we usually prefer not to do that. It's generally OK with diesel (not as much worry about CO) and ours is quiet... but we just prefer not. Hence marinas, and shorepower/heat, on that trip. The day we left Myrtle Beach to continue south to Charleston, it was 22°F, sorta nippy, but we also benefit from a greenhouse effect on our flying bridge, if the sun's out (and it was).

Yes. Ran about 20 miles once to get back home on one engine. It was only a small fuel leak at the Racor fuel/water separator, but I didn't have a part on board to fix it any better... so couldn't run that side. Had it been the other engine, I could also have docked in our own slip... since prop walk direction would have been better suited. As it was, I took the easiest empty slip to dock in, then fixed it the next day. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a single-screw boat, though, if it generally suited our plans; they have some advantages, and we had one 2 boats ago.

Maybe that specific Volvo had some issues; doesn't mean the brand is bad.

-Chris