Crossing the Strait of Georgia in a Dinghy

[senormechanico]

And then you go where the wind doesn't blow.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

VTC and Victoria CG should most certainly be kept in the picture. They'll think Cameron and his friend are outta there minds, but so being is a man's right. A brief "All's well - position XX'XX"N ; XXX'XX"W " on Ch83A every half hour would no doubt be appreciated :-)!

TP

When I first read this, the channel didn't seem right, but I know things tend to change out there frequently. Looked it up - 83A is Coast Guard Radio, which is not the best choice. For one thing, that channel is not monitored 24/7 through the Gabriola site. And in general, shipping does not monitor that channel. Better to check in with Victoria Traffic (12 where they launch/ switching at Cp Roger Curtis to 11) and monitor those channels.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

VTC and Victoria CG should most certainly be kept in the picture. They'll think Cameron and his friend are outta there minds, but so being is a man's right. A brief "All's well - position XX'XX"N ; XXX'XX"W " on Ch83A every half hour would no doubt be appreciated :-)!

TP

This implies the OP is doing something dangerous or foolish. People cross much worse straits in small craft every day. Safety depends upon seamanship much more than size of vessel. And the OP says he is well-experienced and capable.
Good seamanship is being prepared, and that is exactly what the OP is doing by addressing this forum and asking for opinions. He will not venture out if there is any chance of calamity or danger. He is going to have a fun couple of days and a rewarding adventure.

[rsn48]

I agree with the above, the bath tub races out of Nanaimo crossed, many of them, every year for quite some time to Vancouver until the race was changed. You know what you are doing, definitely get a drone to capture your experience.

In fact, you should enter that race:

https://www.bathtubbing.com/

[Lodesman]

The bathtub races had support boats and attracted some spectators enroute, so if anything went sideways there was an out.

[TrentePieds]

It's a long time ago - 40 years? - but as I recall it, the tubs were REQUIRED to have escort boats, and even so, the races were cancelled as being just too, too dangerous.

Here are this year's rules:

https://www.bathtubbing.com/champion...fficial-rules/

and here are charts showing the course:

https://www.bathtubbing.com/champion...e/course-maps/

and here is a note on safety:

https://www.bathtubbing.com/champion...e/safety-info/

These, the above things, were implemented because, I glad to note, CCG, and latterly RCMSAR, made telling arguments that for want of resources they just couldn't deal with the mad mêlée happening in the middle of the straits.

The last "cross the straits race" took place over twenty years ago - 1997 - as I recall. Last year, a local race took place in Vancouver's English Bay, I believe, but that was merely copy-catting on Nanaimo's race.

The principal attraction fifty years ago, when the "real" race started, was the very danger of it. B.C. was home to a huge number of "wild colonial boys" in those days. I've had the pleasure of sailing and drinking with some of them :-). Again I'm relying on dim memory, but I think there was one year shortly before the Nanaimo-Vancouver race was ended that only half a dozen tubs out of 380 or so finished.

Should say, I s'pose, that AFAIK and through the grace of Neptune, no life was ever lost.

TP

[CPierce]

Many thanks for all the helpful responses! I have a couple of follow-up queries & comments:

rbk, Scorpius, Lancerbye, thanks for clarifying the ferry situation--we're also only aware of the Tsawwassen-Duke Point crossing--and will have their schedules.

Uricanejack & yalla mentioned a radar reflector. We'll be sailing a 15' club Vanguard (the mast is less than 20'). I had presumed that a radar reflector would be too cumbersome to install on such a small boat, and not necessary if we sail in high pressure, clear sky, westerlies (plus VHF). How essential is a radar reflector, and is it even intallable on our dinghy? Transport Canada says that a radar reflector is not required if "the small size of the boat or its operation away from radar navigation makes it impossible to install or use a radar reflector." Your thoughts?

Cat36Mahalo mentioned VHF with DSC. The VHF handheld that I've got (Uniden MHS350) doesn't have DSC/MMSI capacity, I don't think(?). How crucial is DSC in this case?

Nibor & Scorpius, I've visited Dionisio and stood at the pass before, and I didn't realize there was that traffic was that heavy at slack. I presume they're all on VHF channel 11?? (Again, we're old hats at small boat sailing, but not at long-haul--so thanks for the input. We'll certainly have binoculars.) Thanks for the heads-up about notifying Vessel Traffic Control. We'll be sure to communicate loud & clear.

Further on VHF (TrentePieds & others)--what's the coverage like (in terms of rescue), including Coast Guard, across the Strait and down Trincomali? (And yes, we'll certainly file our float plan and stay in touch with the Coast Guard.) TrentePieds gave us the situation at Porlier. We'll have wetsuits, toques, and booties along. What's the rescue ETA (at its worst) across the Strait?

Uricanejack & TrentePieds very helpfully guided our navigation out of English Bay--thank you. We'll be crossing on a flood tide, so we're planning on a northward set across the Strait. We'll be restricted to handheld compass, as you note, but we'll look into compass-equipped binoculars. We'll also be using the Navionics app. Can you tell me briefly about this plume over Crofton. Is it reliable? From factory steam or smoke??

Uricanejack also mentioned strong winds in English Bay petering out. I've often noticed this as one enters the Strait (or crosses the shipping channel by Point Atkinson/Bowen). I've been told that anabatic winds off nearby mountains and/or outflows from Howe sound can fill in--but I'm not sure how out into the Strait one has to go to get that lift back?

On this score, Scorpius and Lodesman rightly mentioned risks, including big wind and chop. This is definitely an ambitious adventure trip, and not without risks--although we're doing all we can to anticipate and manage those risks. It's no fail-safe, but thankfully we're both very fit young dinghy sailors, with piles of experience in high wind (>20-25 knots). I've been sailing/racing in English Bay and in nearby waters for a number of years now (and elsewhere before that--have grown up sailing). The Vanguard 15 is a sporty, buoyant little vessel, comfortable to hike on for prolonged periods, with a simple one-design--and easy to right, even from turtle. Two Tuesdays ago, the wind was howling at 25-30 knots here; after racing a Laser, I boarded Jericho Beach Rescue and helped rescue and sail in two turtled Vanguards--one with a torn jib, the other with a dropped main. In terms of boat speed, with 8+ knots of wind, we can usually sail 6+ knots, sometimes against tide.

To be honest, we're more worried about getting skunked in the doldrums, as you also mention, than high wind. If worse comes to worst, we're prepared to drop the sail and paddle for miles (we'll also have lights if we get taken by night.) We don't want to call in help either--a poor use of resources, and surely the most expensive tow we'd ever know.

We'll also give ourselves a multi-day launch window, sometime between June 28 and July 4, so that we exit English Bay in the morning on an ebb, arrive in the Strait as slack turns to flood, cross against a northward set, and arrive at a flood-to-ebb slack at Dionisio late afternoon or early evening--before sailing Trincomali down an ebb to our hosts in Retreat Cove (across from Wallace island). We only plan to sail with clear winds from the west (preferably NW) and a good wind forecast from GOC. If the wind is from the SW, we could consider sailing across Gabriola, but prefer the shorter route through Porlier.

And we'll only plan to attempt Porlier within 20-30 minutes of slack (or on a slightly stronger ebb).

Having said that, any tips for a small repair kit (it has to be small: we're in a small cockpit, with various safety gear, rations, &c)? We were thinking of needles, thread, and palm for the sail, dacron tape, and few small spare parts & lines, bilge pump (Vanguards have port-hole access to the enclosed hull; the cock-pit is self-draining). Any think one can do to temporize a punctured hull on the very small chance we hit a shoal? Tuck tape??

And thanks for the video, TrentePieds. That's our boat! Once the rig sees 5-6 knots, she tightens up nicely--she points comfortably, even in ocean rollers (very buoyant bow), and reaches like anything. It's a shallow, self-draining cockpit--our gear will be in one or two dry-bags tied in the fore-cockpit +/- a smaller one at the base of the mast.

Many thanks,
Cameron

[KP44]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

The bathtub races had support boats and attracted some spectators enroute, so if anything went sideways there was an out.

A bath tub is not a watercraft in anything except Popeye cartoons. You can hardly compare an experienced sailor in a well-equipped dingy to someone in a bath tub who travels in the lee of a rescue (support) ship.

[Greg Mason]

Oh my Cameron. What an assortment of responses. I was thinking if you a little extra room, take some Kryptonite and maybe Wonder Woman. I once lost my starter in Wallace due to oil contamination and sailed all the way home to within 500 yds of my slip in False Creek before asking for assistance. Didn't want to chance the 16 tons of displacement to the tides in False Creek. Truly, even Porlier at slack will have some action, if there is no vessel traffic, stay central and you will be fine. The buoys and line of passage are well marked on any chart. Bueno suerte.

[TrentePieds]

Hello again, Cameron :-)

I read into you first post that you two are sensible, so I'm confident that you can do it.

Half a century ago I started the sailing club at SFU and you'll find its successesor still active at Jericho :-) I forget how many students I taught the rudiments on Enterprise dinghies. One was a boughten frozen snot job, the other two were plywood, built in my basement.

Back then, the microclimate in the Bay meant that departing False Creek ar 0930 of a summer's morning we had about 6 knots of wind in the bay, and teaching conditions were perfect until a little after noon when we usually had 12 knots. By 1400 we'd often have close on twenty, and my people were beginning to turn green. We'd go into Caulfield Cove to let 'em find their wits again. By 1630 the wind would quit, you could set your watch by it, Generally we could then sneak home in a zephyr coming off Alma and Kitsilano, so I made a point of being off Jericho in the mid afternoon. By virtue of the use to which we put it, Caulfield was known, then, as “Pukey Cove” :-)

I'm sure the microclimate has changed now due to the growth of the city since.
The “Squamish” doesn't reach out very far, I would think a coupla miles, max. I've never had to be particularly conscious of it, but when you get back, you can tell me ;-)!

As for a reflector: Why worry? As you say, it is not a mandatory equipment on a V15, and it surely has to be YOUR job not to get under the bows of commercial traffic of any kind. You know perfectly well how to watch for closing and opening bearings, and for you to get out of the way of a biggie is no trick at all. You'll also know where the traffic lanes are, so go across them at 90º and then stay out of them. If there is wind, that won't take you long since your STW will be 10 knots or better, and if there is no wind, you won't be there in the first place :-0!

Since you've stood on Dionisio, you have seen the whirlpools. You have also seen the traffic. It is mainly small stuff. At the narrowest, Porlier is 10 cables (2K feet) wide, and as I said before, the critical distance to run is about the same. With your board up your draft, 2 up, would be what? — 9 inches? — So you can go where no other boat dares to go, but do be careful! If you are board up and get taken onto the rocks by a whirlpool in a six or eight knot tidal flow, you are gonna rip your bottom out!

I'm sure you guys have more stamina than I do, but paddling 9 miles is no fun. I doubt that you can do a steady 2 knots paddling, so if you get becalmed in the middle you are looking at 4 hours or more of unrelenting, exhausting work. You'll be better off with 20 knots of wind than with no wind.

I'll guarantee you that when you check in with VTC there'll be a whole lot of guffaws and some sailor-like language concerning your provenance and your family generally :-) I don't think they'll try to stop you, but they will be a tad concerned. VTC, CCG and RCMSAR chat to each other continuously, so once you check in they'll all know that you are out there. That's why I suggested that you take the initiative to update them now and then, so they don't get worried and start a search. You are likely to get a “Thanks, Keep us posted” in reply. I suggested 83A because that is CCG only. I've never not got an answer on 83A. Some others are suggesting Ch 11, which is intership, and that's fine. I just feel, personally, there is no need to spread the news of you derring-do all around as long as you are fine. And if you are NOT fine you'd be doing a MAYDAY on Ch 16, anyway – wouldn't you :-)? You know the protocol, right? If not, get back to us.

So that brings us to the running time for a rescue vessel, if you do dump. SAR 27 out of Ladysmith would be just under an hour to the middle of GS. The hovercraft from Richmond (Airport, south) about ½ hour — unless she's already on another job. The Zodiac a little more. However, if you DO have to issue a MAYDAY, there will be lotsa other traffic in the straits that's within range, even tho your aerial is only a few feet up. The ferries' aerials are quite high up, and I should think they will receive you and relay to the Coast Gruard, so while others' warnings about the Tsawwassen to Duke Point run are certainly valid, it might turn out that BCF Coastal Celebration is your friend :-).

TrentePieds

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by KP44

A bath tub is not a watercraft in anything except Popeye cartoons. You can hardly compare an experienced sailor in a well-equipped dingy to someone in a bath tub who travels in the lee of a rescue (support) ship.

Have you seen a racing bath-tub? The cockpit is the tub, but it's on a planing hull.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by CPierce

Uricanejack & TrentePieds very helpfully guided our navigation out of English Bay--thank you. We'll be crossing on a flood tide, so we're planning on a northward set across the Strait. We'll be restricted to handheld compass, as you note, but we'll look into compass-equipped binoculars. We'll also be using the Navionics app. Can you tell me briefly about this plume over Crofton. Is it reliable? From factory steam or smoke??

I don't think you should beeline from the bell buoy - that takes you through the shipping lane and keeps you in the termination area far too long. Your best bet is to cross the TSS as fast as possible, then cut a course for Porlier. Before you make the big trip, you should scout out this part of the trip. It's only about 4 or 5 miles from Jericho, and a doable paddle back to Pt Grey.

[fxykty]

Dinghies in open water are not rare. The problems are not strong wind or big waves (within reason, but experienced dinghy sailors should be able to handle anything up to 25 knots and 2m wind chop), but calm. Work out a good way to retain stability while either kayak or canoe paddling. Carry enough water and fuel to keep you going for the hours it will take you to paddle in from mid straight.

Laser dinghies have crossed Bass Straight in Australia and Cook Straight in New Zealand (typically waiting for near gale westerly conditions to reach and surf). Back in the mid-80s we regularly sailed our Laser 2 in Georgia Straight from West Vancouver in windy days when most sailboats furled their sails and motored for shelter. Wind and waves are fun for as long as your fitness allows. We didn’t carry paddles so it was a long time hand paddling when the wind died.

If you can’t fix it with duct tape and waterproof epoxy it’s not fixable on a small boat. Ensure your rig is bulletproof so you don’t get done by a missing cotter pin and tape everything beforehand.

You can buy handheld VHF with DSC and that’s the most effective way to announce your presence (though your 4.5m length, sailing vessel type, and 10 knots boatspeed will raise eyebrows).

Go for it!

[Jim Cate]

Where are you guys getting this ten knot speed from? Possibly true at times, but the OP suggests more like six knots, and even that seems high if the wind isn't just right. Counting on a ten knot AVERAGE speed for the passage isn't good IMO.

Jim

[TrentePieds]

Haven't got a chart here at my office, so this is from memory:

Departing from the bell buoy and crossing the TSS where it is narrowest would requires about 4NM on about 260ºT. Timing your departure to arrive at Porlier shortly before slack, means that you'll doing this at slack — 3 hours. At that state of a flooding tide, the flow where you will be will set you north, i.e. it will help you cross the TSS. Again without reference to tables, the set may be as much as 2Knts. Once you are west of the TSS you shouldn't have to enter it again.

From that waypoint the rhumbline to Porlier is about 200ºT and the distance about 15 NM

Haven't had a stopwatch on a dinghy for half a century, so, Cameron, what is YOUR opinion of your speed in, say, 15knts of wind? I would think you'd be well and truly on the plane by then? Do you perhaps have a polar plot?

TP