Cruising and Modern Conveniences- All is good with Universe

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I was reflecting on this after I dropped this post online. Over the last 6-mos, I've been on VHF Nets or email equivalent with 400 or so boats cruising south of the border, some into Panama and then the Caribbean. I'd guess roughly 10% have had some flavor of charging/battery issue that altered their plans.

For cruising away from yachting centers (or on tight budgets), you have to make a decision along the continuum of need vs want. I think s lot of cruising boats these days leave with a lot of "want" kit supported by tons of solar, LFP batteries, hi-output alternators, generators, and a lot of Victron kit. It's cool stuff but not as reliable as old school setups. What's "want" vs "need?" It's a personal decision. Freezers, ice makers, washing machine, induction/microwave, A/C, etc. Lost goes on.

Just depends on what your expectations are. I have a full solar/LFP setup and it's now working pretty well, but it was a difficult transition to get it running properly, and it still needs care and feeding to make sure I have enough power. A friend has a boat roughly size of mine - a very knowledgeable owner. He has a large frame Leece Neville alternator and a large AGM bank. Simple and flawless. He can't go days without running the engines but it can be fixed anywhere on the planet.

Choices.....

Nicely put. It's about choices; choices of where to cruise, and what one really needs and wants.

I sense that too many new cruisers are seduced into having all the 'wants' they can afford. This leads to too many then having a boat load of systems they can't easily maintain or repair themselves. It's all well and good if one never ventures far off the beaten path, stays close to marine services, AND has the money to pay someone else to do the work. But that's certainly not how I cruise.

[Kettlewell]

It's all well and good if one never ventures far off the beaten path, stays close to marine services, AND has the money to pay someone else to do the work. But that's certainly not how I cruise.

You don't have to get off the beaten path for repairs to be a big problem, and wreck your cruising plans. I see boats all the time that never leave the marina or even get launched because of some repair issue, and brand new boats seem particularly vulnerable.

[thomm225]

So, following the advice I received from some long time cruisers in the 90's of "know your boat," I replaced the gearbox when it failed soon after I launched the boat.

The boat I bought was a 1974 Bristol 27 sailboat. I found an old diesel with gearbox cheap and had it shipped to me.

Changing a gear box is almost easier to do by pulling the entire engine, but I did it in 90 plus degree heat with the diesel still mounted in the boat.

Soon after replacing the gear box the diesel failed so I pulled the diesel and gear box, switch the gear box back to its original engine on the dock and installed that alone using the boom to swing the engine over to the boat from the dock.

I had only paid $2,000 for the boat so I didn't want to put a lot into a new or late model diesel engine. Plus, I wasn't sure how long I would keep this boat.

The second diesel (another Bukh 10 hp) leaked like a sieve so I finally pulled it out along with all associated equipment to include prop, prop shaft, stuffing box, engine mounts, muffler, copper fuel line, 20 gallon fuel tank which all tolled equaled about 400 lbs.

I bolted all the grounds that had been connected to the engine together and connected those to battery negative.

Then bought a new 5 HP 4 stroke outboard and bracket and my engine troubles were over. The engine has no alternator though. I didn't want a bunch of wires or control lines coming out of the outboard. The outboard also has an integral tank so most time I don't hook up the external tank unless I'm motor a long distance.

Next it was a new main and I added solar myself but for the first few years experimented with a $10 voltage regulator instead of a PWM or MPPT Controller.

This regulator held the charging voltage to 14.4 volts so I would unhook the panels from the battery after a few days of charging.

Later I bought PWM controllers for each battery. These costs between $12- $30.

Finally, I bought a Victron Smart Solar Controller with Bluetooth after owning the bought almost 10 years.

Soon afterward, I ditched my 12 volt batteries for 2 two 220 AH 6 volt Golf Cart Batteries which are great.

Later as I mentioned before built a chart plotter using a Raspberry Pi Computer at first but got tired of the Linux OS and all the wires so switched out the RPi's for a Windows 10 Laptop that I already owned.

RPi's are backup. And the HDTV that was the monitor is just for TV now if I want to hook it up.

I then built up an old Windows Vista Tower I'd had in my closet for years with new Motherboard, CPU, 650 Watt Power Supply, Solid State Disk Drive, Windows 10 software, etc. to replace the laptop for home use. Also got a 24" monitor for it.

The PO's 1990's Humminbird Depth Finder finally failed, but I was able to find a replacement head/display for it on Ebay for $25.

I had one inverter fail so now I have a 400 watt inverter and a 1500 watt inverter onboard.

The PO's two 1990's GPS Units failed after a few years, so I used the GPS on my VHF and later bought a GPS USB Dongle for the chart plotter. So have redundant GPS input connected to OpenCPN.

Plus, a VK-172 GPS satellite USB dongle receiver with built-in satellite receiver antenna for $12.

Also replaced PO's bilge pump when it failed but kept using the float switch.

[mvweebles]

All I can tell you is we've met a LOT of fellow cruisers, many because we have Internet access (vs in spite of Internet access). This may be a result of venturing deep into Central America vs Bahamas or US destinations or rest of works.

Secondly, if it didn't come stock on a 1995 Ford F-150, chances of getting it repaired or replaced is near zero in Mexico. Even marine mechanics are befuddled by Victron, Spectra, and Balmar kit. You can get refrigeration recharged but not necessarily repaired.

[Kettlewell]

Secondly, if it didn't come stock on a 1995 Ford F-150, chances of getting it repaired or replaced is near zero in Mexico. Even marine mechanics are befuddled by Victron, Spectra, and Balmar kit. You can get refrigeration recharged but not necessarily repaired.

We met someone on a large trawler yacht down in Panama that was having a mechanic fly in from California to work on an engine control problem.

[JPA Cate]

It isn't maintenance, per se, that drives people off their boats in most cases, it is their attitude that what they encounter with having to take charge of accomplishing projects that they don't know how to do for themselves. For some, they just were not interested to learn; for some, it didn't fit their self image--like it was a class or education issue; for some, it was missing the sailing season, stuck in a developing nation where getting parts in was a problem, as were competent workers for complicated stuff. The underlying problem is lack of motivation to confront learning something new.

thomm225 has the willingness to experiment with stuff and find a way to make it work, but even that willingness doesn't seem to be part of modern makeup.

It is that the newbie cruisers, although they do sometimes ask, don't want to cut back on what they consider "normal" comforts. Like long showers, in some cases multiple times per day; frequent clothing changes intensifying the need for a washing machine; I really don't know about air conditioning. I was present when an ex FL boat in New Zealand was busy removing all their air conditioning--this was in 1990. What cruisers without AC did was invest in ways of keeping direct sun off the decks (awnings); windscoops--we even built a reefing windscoop that had a top shade, so the air that came down was cooled a bit, by the shade; and also, we accepted we might not get a full night's sleep sometime, or might have to sleep on top a sail on deck, to have enough cool. We had low draw electric fans to blow on our sweat to cool us in bed. It is the concept that one either tries to fit in to what nature offers, or fights it. The costs of fighting it are sometimes high, environmentally and economically.

But one can choose, and we don't have to choose the consumerism that our culture tries to embed in us, as Mike OReilly and some others have eloquently tried to show.

Ann

PS. We were in the Solomon Islands, ~ 7 deg. S. latitude, and it was very humid there, as well. Using shade and fans, it took me about 6 weeks to adjust to the hot, humid days there. It's closer to the equator than FL, but I don't know how it actually compares, but more malaria, for sure.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It isn't maintenance, per se, that drives people off their boats in most cases, it is their attitude that what they encounter with having to take charge of accomplishing projects that they don't know how to do for themselves. For some, they just were not interested to learn; for some, it didn't fit their self image--like it was a class or education issue; for some, it was missing the sailing season, stuck in a developing nation where getting parts in was a problem, as were competent workers for complicated stuff. The underlying problem is lack of motivation to confront learning something new.

thomm225 has the willingness to experiment with stuff and find a way to make it work, but even that willingness doesn't seem to be part of modern makeup.

It is that the newbie cruisers, although they do sometimes ask, don't want to cut back on what they consider "normal" comforts. Like long showers, in some cases multiple times per day; frequent clothing changes intensifying the need for a washing machine; I really don't know about air conditioning. I was present when an ex FL boat in New Zealand was busy removing all their air conditioning--this was in 1990. What cruisers without AC did was invest in ways of keeping direct sun off the decks (awnings); windscoops--we even built a reefing windscoop that had a top shade, so the air that came down was cooled a bit, by the shade; and also, we accepted we might not get a full night's sleep sometime, or might have to sleep on top a sail on deck, to have enough cool. We had low draw electric fans to blow on our sweat to cool us in bed. It is the concept that one either tries to fit in to what nature offers, or fights it. The costs of fighting it are sometimes high, environmentally and economically.

But one can choose, and we don't have to choose the consumerism that our culture tries to embed in us, as Mike OReilly and some others have eloquently tried to show.

Ann

PS. We were in the Solomon Islands, ~ 7 deg. S. latitude, and it was very humid there, as well. Using shade and fans, it took me about 6 weeks to adjust to the hot, humid days there. It's closer to the equator than FL, but I don't know how it actually compares, but more malaria, for sure.

We're currently at about 10-degrees north and it's pretty hot and humid. Back in Mazatlan. I sewed a large foredeck awning and side awnings to cover the side windows on our trawler which has made a huge difference. I consider having our primary bunks in the v-berth coupled with sun shades a primary reason we've been so comfortable. Bring in low latitudes requires a strategy for staying cool which for many means running the A/C full time.

We originally left thinking we'd spend most of our time anchored our. While we enjoy being anchored our, inland travel is much easier from a marina so we've spent roughly 60% of our time in a marina. Also, many of the marinas along Mexico's Pacific Coast are very cruiser friendly so we've met a lot of people. Although we left our boat in Chiapas MX, we hitched a ride to Costa Rica on the boat of another cruiser. When we resume our cruise this October, our routine will change and we'll spend much more time anchored our. The marinas in Costa Rica are much more expensive than Mexico, and the inland travel opportunities less appealing to us. And frankly, the restaurants are not nearly as good as in Mexico. Finally, the anchorages are more plentiful and less rolly.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I've run into lots of cruisers stuck in harbor waiting for parts, and I've been there myself. The more complicated the systems the more that can and will go wrong eventually, and the more likely you will be waiting for parts. Plus, I've run into people having to travel long distances out of their way to get to some technician who can fix something, often electronic and complex, that can't be done onboard by the average boater ...

The complexity and sophistication, of modern electronic devices, leads to the situation, where it is cheaper, and much easier, to replace, than repair.
To repair today’s devices, it’s no longer enough to know how to analyze circuits, and locate faults. Technicians must become online sleuths, on the hunt for information, and replacement parts.

But, not being able to repair our things “is a completely artificial problem,” said Gay Gordon-Byrne, in her TED Talk*, on the “Right to Repair”, and one that she says can only be fixed by passing legislation, to tip the balance back in favour of consumers.

For decades now, product manufacturers have been systematically strangling the repair ecosystem. They do this, by withholding critical information, and parts, from consumers and independent repair shops, and threatening penalties for copyright infringement.
Increasingly, electronics and appliances are made with proprietary parts, controlled exclusively by manufacturers, through copyright, trademarks, and patents.

The foundational idea, behind the “Right to Repair” Movement, is simple: if you own it, you should be able to fix it, either by yourself, or at a repair shop, of your choice. The movement’s goal is to make repair more accessible and affordable, by forcing manufacturers to provide information, diagnostics, tools, and parts, to everyone.

Cleaning up the electronics manufacturing industry will require systemic change, at the supply chain level, and that won’t happen, without regulatory pressure.
Good luck, with that.


* “You deserve the right to repair your stuff” ~ by Gay Gordon-Byrne |
[TEDMonterey, August 2021]
➥ https://www.ted.com/talks/gay_gordon...ff?language=en

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The complexity and sophistication, of modern electronic devices, leads to the situation, where it is cheaper, and much easier, to replace, than repair.
To repair today’s devices, it’s no longer enough to know how to analyze circuits, and locate faults. Technicians must become online sleuths, on the hunt for information, and replacement parts.

But, not being able to repair our things “is a completely artificial problem,” said Gay Gordon-Byrne, in her TED Talk*, on the “Right to Repair”, and one that she says can only be fixed by passing legislation, to tip the balance back in favour of consumers.

For decades now, product manufacturers have been systematically strangling the repair ecosystem. They do this, by withholding critical information, and parts, from consumers and independent repair shops, and threatening penalties for copyright infringement.
Increasingly, electronics and appliances are made with proprietary parts, controlled exclusively by manufacturers, through copyright, trademarks, and patents.

The foundational idea, behind the “Right to Repair” Movement, is simple: if you own it, you should be able to fix it, either by yourself, or at a repair shop, of your choice. The movement’s goal is to make repair more accessible and affordable, by forcing manufacturers to provide information, diagnostics, tools, and parts, to everyone.

Cleaning up the electronics manufacturing industry will require systemic change, at the supply chain level, and that won’t happen, without regulatory pressure.
Good luck, with that.


* “You deserve the right to repair your stuff” ~ by Gay Gordon-Byrne |
[TEDMonterey, August 2021]
➥ https://www.ted.com/talks/gay_gordon...ff?language=en

Most times these days you can't even get the schematics to analyze and repair most electronic devices.

In the 1970's, 80's, 90's and early 2000's, we fixed all electronic failures at our various work places. We had schematics for everything and a manual with theory of operation of each system which for me was mostly Air Traffic Control Radar and IFF systems until starting simulator maintenance the 80's.

The Radar and IFF systems were powered by large diesel generators on trailers as we were a deployable unit. The generators delivered 400 HZ three phase power and had to be started every morning. Sometimes the Mech's connected the power wrong though so a tech had to go and correct that as the phases would be out of wack.

A soldering iron was usually on in every shop every day. Every shop needed a meter and an O'scope. Back then we could replace chips since they were large enough but not so today with a standard pace station equipment. (soldering station)

Today the O'scopes have to be dusted off before I have them picked up for calibration. I only get 2 of them calibrated. Soldering iron use is very rare.

Many time techs have to search around for the meters as they are rarely used.

We have Phoenix I/O. Tech's troubleshoot those from one of the computer stations hooked to the system or simulator. Failed modules are discarded and replaced with spares then I order the spare replacement.

Most circuit cards that have data coming and going have small blinking lights on them so you know data is passing through. If the light is off or not blinking, you usually have a problem which is that card or the one before sending, etc.

The rest are computer problems or software or cyber update patches that screw things up with certain computers and certain software and then that latest update has to be removed then figure out why it caused a problem.

We have spares for 95% of all electronic assemblies and failed items are sent off for repair or trashed. Even our projectors and graphics processors are computer based.

Everything is networked together through ethernet.

Leaking or failed hydraulic actuators are sent off for repair usually costing around $3300 for a normal repair. Projector reconditioning/repair in 2015 was $15,500 and ended at $29,000.

UPS batteries have to be replaced every 5 years regardless at a cost from $9,000 to $20,000. We have about 15 of those with 24-72 12 volt batteries in each.

Most "failures" are operator error or reboots since we have so many computers interacting with each other.

If we have a main power problem, an old school tech usually has to be called since the young techs were mainly taught how to troubleshoot computer systems and there is so much to learn just operating the things depending on the OS used.

Techs are from age 28 - 73 years old so we have it covered for the most part. Techs under 40 are usually mainly computer system techs.

Power is 3 phase 60 HZ coming in but most systems have a 400 HZ converter for cockpit power on the Aircraft Simulators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFfJUBVsoVk

[Mike OReilly]

The Pardeys championed the notion of making your boat "unstoppable." By this they meant, in part, building redundancy into all boat systems, and never making any one system so critical to your boat's operations that it would stop your cruise if it died.

It means that outside of a serious hole in the boat, the voyage can always go on. One should never be stuck in a marina, waiting for parts.

I like this as a guiding principle, although I've failed to live up to it at times; I've been "stuck" dealing with my diesel engine because I don't know enough about this beast .

But in general, there are few other system failures that can stop my cruise. Most of my systems are either simple enough for me to maintain and fix, or they are highly reliable. This has allowed us to soldier on when something fails.

[thomm225]

That's what is so interesting about Matt Rutherford's 27,000 mile sail around the Americas on a borrowed Albin Vega 27.

Most all his systems failed including his engine and batteries, but he still had his sails, the rudder was okay, and his monitor windvane was still working so he completed his voyage although he did get stuck at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay for a day or so and drifted back 16 miles.

He had batteries delivered at some point, but the engine stayed broken for the remainder of the voyage.

He did have a Sat Phone that still worked.

https://reddotontheocean.com/

[thomm225]

Matt Rutherford though was on no pleasure cruise like most cruisers.

He was trying to circumnavigate the Americas solo and nonstop to raise money for Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating (CRAB).

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...n-accomplished

[mvweebles]

For me, I underestimated how much stress full time cruising in low latitude climate places on boat systems. Not everything has a practical spare - who carries a spare inverter for example?

The days of the Pardeys being cruising role models are long gone. Few are willing to tolerate that level of austerity full time. However, I do think there is a happy medium for complexity. But you do have to set aside the typical house as template.

But I guess the biggest item I wanted to reinforce when I started this thread is that while Starlink and SmartPhones can serve to isolate cruisers, my experience has been the opposite - the digital communications have actually served to provide connective tissue to identify fellow cruisers and it's easier to stay in touch. Maybe it's different in places like the Bahamas of US anchorages, but a long the Pacific Coast where boats are generally traveling significant distances, digital communications help stay in touch.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

...
PS. We were in the Solomon Islands, ~ 7 deg. S. latitude, and it was very humid there, as well. Using shade and fans, it took me about 6 weeks to adjust to the hot, humid days there. It's closer to the equator than FL, but I don't know how it actually compares, but more malaria, for sure.

Used to sail on my dad's boat in South East Florida and The Keys in the summer time. It was hot but I was acclimated to the heat and humidity. We always anchored, and while it was hot in the day and early evening, at night I would be cold.

We have stayed on a boat in a marina in South Carolina in the summer a few times and AC was required. No wind. Hot and humid. Even with AC running it was barely cooling the boat. Without AC I think we would have gone to a hotel.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

We met someone on a large trawler yacht down in Panama that was having a mechanic fly in from California to work on an engine control problem.

I read a magazine storty about a sail boat that had to fly a mechanic into Greenland because the engine failed. They sailed to a port but had to be towed in. Turned out to be a chaffed wire on the engine.

While some of the complexity problem is certainly asking for the latest modern conveniences, most of the new engines are complex due to emission requirements. We talked to some JD representatives a decade ago and they admitted that without power their engines would not work. It used to be all a diesel engine needed after starting was air and fuel. Now, many engines need fuel, air, and electricity. The later is problematic.

My truck engine design is 30-35 years old. However, it needs ONE chip that I know of to run. I consider the chip a consumable since it requires replacement every 30,000-50,000 miles. This is a well known issue with this engine. When I first bought the truck, the first thing I did was buy a spare chip and put it in the glove box. Millions of this engine were made, and are still in service, but at some point, that chip will no longer be made and the engine will NOT run.

Something to consider on are modern vehicles that are more and more dependent on chips. A vehicle made in small numbers might have to be scarped earlier than usual because of lack of chips, or because a number of electronic features have failed, and the expense to fix all of the gadgets is so high one can buy a new car.

My truck, which is over two decades old, has some electronic problems. Simple things but one dealer will not even LOOK at the problem.

Too many devices have to be replaced not repaired, and that is at least partially because people do not have the skills to trouble shoot a problem, much less fix it. If the problem is a dead chip, can one get a replacement? If a surface mounted resistor has failed, can one find it, and if so, can one remove it? Does one have a replacement and the skill to solder it back on the board? Even if one has the tools to debug and fix the problem, has the parts, is it cheaper to just buy a new part? Skilled labor is expensive and can be hard to find.

Unless things have changed, JD will not supply one with a spare ECM. You loose the ECM, say because of a lightning strike, you are scat out of luck. Once one starts adding electrical devices to our lives, we are vulnerable to loosing them since at some level, we can't fix them. If the gear on a winch breaks, I can't make another one, though getting that gear remade by some local will be possible, unlike a chip.

One needs to recognize that soooo much of the equipment we use is also a vulnerability since we can't fix it. One just needs to balance the complexity with skills, tools, spare parts, redundant systems, probability of failure, seriousness of failure, and Good Luck.