Cruising and Modern Conveniences- All is good with Universe

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

The Pardey's are the equivlent of taking a DC-3 instead of a a 787 Dreamliner to fly around the world. I just shake my head and say why.

Cheyne

Depends on what you want to do.

Want to go a very long way very fast then 787.

Want to go a very long way off the beaten path and see the sights along the way, then DC-3.

The Pardeys wanted to go a long way off the beaten path and see the sights, so they built fast boats (for their size) that were very durable.

They were short on cash so they skipped the engine, and they could do that because they had good sailing boats.

Wait and save more money for a "better" boat or go sooner and have fun sooner? They chose to go sooner.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

In my 7.5 year of cruising "complex" systems maintenance providing totaled:

- Freezer/refrigeration -20 hours (most pf that was installing new electronic thermostats and replacing seals). Not much time for cold food and being able to have 2 months meat in the freezer
- Air conditioning -2 hours maybe. most was replacing the starter capacitors with soft start the rest was just replacing/cleanimg the filters
- watermaker -2 hours once installed on my AC SW {ro units and 10 units on my Spectuar before realizing it was WAY too complex
- inboard generator = 20 hours before I just gave up on it
-Honda EU2200 -6 hours in 5 years to replace pull crd, clean carburetor, change oil[
- alternator/charger - 4 hours to change alternator belts, replace the regulator once and add temp protection. The charger has never needed any maintenance
-batteries - 8 hours most of which was changing the location to handle different size and to replace them
- autopilot 2 hours to change a gps compass
- chartplotter and other instruments - maybe 30 minutes
- electric head - 6 hours over the years to change joker valves, clean motor after failed seal
- 40" TV and system to stream - don't they ever needed "maintenance"
- stereo probably 5 hours as I had a few go bad
- pressure fresh water, don't remember the last time did anything to it
- Hot water, 0 minutes the OEM 23 year water heater still working fine

So not much time over the 7.5 yeas to ruin my busy schedule. Meanwhile the enjoyment of those systems were priceless!

I forgot about my watermaker. As I've written elsewhere, it's been a PITA due to the accessory items and overly cumbersome design (CruiseRO). That said. I think going a basic system such as SeawaterPro over Spectra is an example of going with a more simple and easier serviced system even through water production per unit of energy may not be as good.

Don, glad your cruising was so manageable. Mine has been too but I have to say that roughly 5%-10% of the cruisers has systems that seriously impinged on their cruising pleasure. Most of those issues traced to charging systems.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Don, glad your cruising was so manageable. Mine has been too but I have to say that roughly 5%-10% of the cruisers has systems that seriously impinged on their cruising pleasure. Most of those issues traced to charging systems.

There are a lot of cruisers who LET systems imping on their cruising. It was very rare for me to not have a problem with "something", but they rarely stopped me from cruising

I don't think I have met a cruiser whose charging system was stopping them. I could charge my batteries from 3 different methods. Maybe in Mexico where you are it falls more into a lot of just starting "cruisers" who just don't have their boat needs sorted out yet.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

. Maybe in Mexico where you are it falls more into a lot of just starting "cruisers" who just don't have their boat needs sorted out yet.

Novice cruisers is a good point that I had not considered - certainly includes me despite the fact I have many years and miles of owning and using boats, including delivery skipper for several years.

It takes a while to get a system sorted. It's one thing to test a charging system for a weekend out on San Diego Bay. Another to test it on an indefinite cruise in hot and humid tropical weather.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

To me, system complexity is not the core metric. It's whether the crew can maintain and repair the system. So the measure of whether is a system is too complex is crew-dependent. . . .

I think that's right.

My father, a sailor himself, told me when I started cruising on my own that the golden rule of cruising is that every single system on board, unless it's something you can easily do without, needs to be repairable by some person on board, with parts and tools you have on board. "Some person" is not necessarily me -- like, if I can afford pro crew, that also works.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

DH, I don't get the complexity -- redundancy correlation. I think vessel size is a stronger relationship; the bigger the boat, the more systems you have on board, hence greater redundancy. . .

Well sure, but it's also a matter of complexity, isn't it? I've seen exceedingly simple large boats. Viking ship, for example.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

. . . BTW, I use a cockpit sunshower. I cruise Newfoundland . In the late spring to early fall, the temperatures are quite comfortable.

!

I don't know about Newfoundland, but up here I've seen snow on midsummer's eve.

I treasure my hot shower. In fact, I installed an extra electrical outlet in my aft heads for an electrical heater. I like to run the generator for a while before I take a shower, and run an electrical heater in the heads until it gets to 40C or so. Now that's my kind of shower!!

When we did our trip to the Arctic, we had to radically save fresh water because our watermaker didn't arrive in time before our departure. The rest of the crew happily stopped showering but I can't live without a daily wash. So I used to sit naked on my swim platform every morning with a bucket and wash with ice cold seawater, sometimes having to throw ice bits out of the bucket. Washing body part by body part to avoid thermal shock. Finally a cup or two of hot fresh water for a final rinse.

There was strange pleasure in that routine (maybe it's one of those things which feels so good when you stop ). But the first real hot shower back in civilization was pure bliss.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think that's right.

My father, a sailor himself, told me when I started cruising on my own that the golden rule of cruising is that every single system on board, unless it's something you can easily do without, needs to be repairable by some person on board, with parts and tools you have on board. "Some person" is not necessarily me -- like, if I can afford pro crew, that also works.

Your father was a wise man .

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well sure, but it's also a matter of complexity, isn't it? I've seen exceedingly simple large boats. Viking ship, for example.

A Viking ship would have few systems, so functionally lots of redundancy. Maybe we're talking about different things. Redundancy to me is having a direct replacement or backup for a system. I don't see how complexity correlates.

Have more of the same system (multiple chartplotters, self-steering gear, or heads for example), or carrying direct spares, is how I'm thinking of it. So a bigger boat with multiple versions of the same system, and lots of space to carry direct replacements, makes sense. But we might be thinking about it differently.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know about Newfoundland, but up here I've seen snow on midsummer's eve.
...

When we did our trip to the Arctic, we had to radically save fresh water because our watermaker didn't arrive in time before our departure. The rest of the crew happily stopped showering but I can't live without a daily wash. So I used to sit naked on my swim platform every morning with a bucket

Newfoundland can, and regularly does, get snow in every month of the year. It's uncommon in the summer, at least down on the island, but it does happen occasionally. In Labrador, it's more common, but I'm on the island (north-east side).

The key is not to shower when it's snowing, or cold, or raining, or sleety, or heavy fog, or... Hmmmm, come to think of it, there's are lots of days when I can't shower .

But we're not talking the Arctic. Certainly if I was cruising the Arctic, I'd want an indoor shower. My boat actually does have a wet head (shower). I prefer to shower in the great outdoors -- to let it all hang out .

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well said and eminently quotable!

Also known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

For me, I underestimated how much stress full time cruising in low latitude climate places on boat systems. Not everything has a practical spare - who carries a spare inverter for example?

Erm, well yes we do. Its 1600w PSW so not as big as the main 2kW inverter and would take 20 minutes to connect up if needed, but it's there on board.

Takes time to find good kit on FB Market Place but if you're patience. We also carry an identical spare double Vango induction hob again from FB, even for coastal sailing. The loss of the main could take several days to obtain a new one and that's holiday time which I would rather spend doing absolutely nothing

The one item I did take off was the spare original alternator which still works. You might think this a valuable item to carry, but solar is the main source of electrical power on board and we have spare MPPTs. By a quirk of engineering, the VP 2003 raw water engine has the pump run from the cam shaft. The only thing the alternator belt does is drive the alternator, so the engine will start, run for hours and stop quite happily without that belt or alternator.

Pete

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Erm, well yes we do. Its 1600w PSW so not as big as the main 2kW inverter and would take 20 minutes to connect up if needed, but it's there on board.

Takes time to find good kit on FB Market Place but if you're patience.

Pete

I bought my Sine Wave inverter from Argos.. modified sine wave inverter from Streetwize safely converts your vehicle's 12V DC battery into a 230V AC power source. It is suitable for running all kinds of Class II appliances (i. E. Laptops, kettles & electric hobs, smartphones), providing that total wattage of all appliance used does not exceed 1000W. Includes two UK plugs and single charge port.
Mind I didn't have an induction cooker.. It was just a quick stroll up Poole High St..
£100.. The Chandlery version was £448. 80

[sailorboy1]

you know what seems funny?

People posting about "simple" boat systems using the internet

[thomm225]

The internet is hi-tech, but it's quite easy to have multiple redundancy.

Therefore, it's usually not a worry if one computer or phone dies.

On my boat, I have 3 computers that can pick up the internet via WiFi and my phone as hot spot when I'm close to shore.

Offshore, you can get Starlink if you really want internet.

Cole Brauer during her RTW Race had multiple systems fail that she had to repair, but her internet (Starlink) worked pretty consistently.

She made tons of videos and posted them while sailing well offshore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzqCyqEKNPI

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

you know what seems funny?

People posting about "simple" boat systems using the internet

If you can buy a replacement just about anywhere for €100 or less it's simple..

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Erm, well yes we do. Its 1600w PSW so not as big as the main 2kW inverter and would take 20 minutes to connect up if needed, but it's there on board.

Takes time to find good kit on FB Market Place but if you're patience. We also carry an identical spare double Vango induction hob again from FB, even for coastal sailing. The loss of the main could take several days to obtain a new one and that's holiday time which I would rather spend doing absolutely nothing

The one item I did take off was the spare original alternator which still works. You might think this a valuable item to carry, but solar is the main source of electrical power on board and we have spare MPPTs. By a quirk of engineering, the VP 2003 raw water engine has the pump run from the cam shaft. The only thing the alternator belt does is drive the alternator, so the engine will start, run for hours and stop quite happily without that belt or alternator.

Pete

I run a 3kw low frequency inverter/charger. Given the price, reasonable to carry a spare I suppose. Space is an issue. I do carry a small-ish spare 120VAC battery charger so wouldn't be totally dead in the water. I don't have a lot of confidence in the low-cost hi-frequency inverters, though I realize some are pretty good.

Getting alternators repaired is easier in most countries than the US - every town in Central America has someone who re-winds them and will repair diodes. Cool that the Volvo doesn't drive the raw water pump off a belt. Many larger engines are gear-driven and also not vulnerable.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

. . . The key is not to shower when it's snowing, or cold, or raining, or sleety, or heavy fog, or... Hmmmm, come to think of it, there's are lots of days when I can't shower .,.

No, no, NO! I can't unread that. CAN'T shower? NOOOOOOO!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No, no, NO! I can't unread that. CAN'T shower? NOOOOOOO!

It only becomes a problem when we (me and she) get out-of-synch .