Day Shapes while Anchoring

[Nekton73]

I haven't had time to wade through all 163 posts on this thread, so this may have been pointed out, but some countries have modifications/exemptions to various parts of the IRPCS (although I'm not aware of any that exempt an anchor ball).



Here in Canada there are some odd ones, a couple of which I took note of when I first began my sailing studies. Paraphrased:



Rule 25 - Vessels in Canada are not required to display a motoring cone, although they may if they wish.


Rule 28 - Vessels in Canada shall not display lights or shapes indicate that they are constrained by draught when sailing inland waters, rivers, lakes etc.


The fine print is here, if you're interested to read it: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../FullText.html


However, there is no modification regarding displaying a ball while at anchor. Like many I have an all-round light at the masthead which I display when anchored at night, but I am guilty of not having or displaying the day shape. Perhaps I should make the effort going forward.



Anyone have a good source for where to buy day shapes, or an easy way to make one?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

Here in Canada there are some odd ones, a couple of which I took note of when I first began my sailing studies. Paraphrased:



Rule 25 - Vessels in Canada are not required to display a motoring cone, although they may if they wish.

That's for vessels under 12m in length only.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Frank60

I'm really missing the point of the ball. Those in support of the ball seem to say 'why not because it's easy' or 'to avoid a lawsuit'. What's the real reason for it?

Anyone on a collision course with another boat should be able to figure out that they're on a collision course whether the boat is anchored or not. That's basic seamanship. How does a black ball help you figure out where/how to maneuver? What if they accidentally left the black ball up while underway?

I just don't get it.

Well since you apparently haven't read through the whole thread, you've missed the other two reasons given for using a ball - a summary of all three can be obtained by reading posts #36, 45 and 80 or 105.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I have looked for such data, and cannot find it. Have you looked? As I said, if the data showed any benefit, I might be persuaded.

I state, I do not imply, that IF there is a difference, it should be visible in collision-at-anchor data. Certainly insurance companies, if not law enforcement, have an interest in the issue, so I infer that IF there is a difference, it should be visible.

Hint: Lack of data proves nothing, but an open mind should use this as a starting point.

And I have ZERO interest in a bun-fight over this. Fly the shape if you like. I was simply stating the reality as I see and experience it.

Here’s one near Corsica in 2018...... CSL Virginia at anchor, Ulysses underway. [ATTACH]266309

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by peter loveridge

I've sailed all over Nova Scotia for nearly 50 years. I've never seen a black ball on any pleasure boat less than 100 feet long. There are 4000 commercial fishing boats within half a days sail of my home port, I've never seen a ball even aboard any of these. As far as commercial vessels go, balls are rare in Halifax, though there are something like 8 designated anchoring spots, so they may not count

Well after 50 years sailing Nova Scotia, it might be time for you to learn that US Inland Rules are not applicable there. There is no designated anchorage rule in Canada.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

I haven't had time to wade through all 163 posts on this thread, so this may have been pointed out, but some countries have modifications/exemptions to various parts of the IRPCS (although I'm not aware of any that exempt an anchor ball).



Here in Canada there are some odd ones, a couple of which I took note of when I first began my sailing studies. Paraphrased:



Rule 25 - Vessels in Canada are not required to display a motoring cone, although they may if they wish.


Rule 28 - Vessels in Canada shall not display lights or shapes indicate that they are constrained by draught when sailing inland waters, rivers, lakes etc.


The fine print is here, if you're interested to read it: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../FullText.html


However, there is no modification regarding displaying a ball while at anchor. Like many I have an all-round light at the masthead which I display when anchored at night, but I am guilty of not having or displaying the day shape. Perhaps I should make the effort going forward.



Anyone have a good source for where to buy day shapes, or an easy way to make one?

Pretty easy to make. Cut two circles out of plywood. Cut a slot as wide as the plywood is thick, from the edge to the center. Paint them black. To assemble, orient them with the opening of the slots toward each other, one turned 90 degrees to the other, and slide them together, each circle sliding into the slot of the other. Drill two holes in each, at the points on either side of the slot, near the edge. Tie a halyard end into one pair of holes. Tie a downhaul into the other pair of holes. The tension will hold them slotted together. You can get fancy with another circle cut into quadrants and the quadrants set to hold the two circles at right angles, if you wish, but not really necessary. You can also buy dayshapes from Worst Marine. And Defender. Here is an Amazon link https://www.amazon.com/Lalizas-Inter...859&th=1&psc=1

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Frank60

I'm really missing the point of the ball. Those in support of the ball seem to say 'why not because it's easy' or 'to avoid a lawsuit'. What's the real reason for it?

Anyone on a collision course with another boat should be able to figure out that they're on a collision course whether the boat is anchored or not. That's basic seamanship. How does a black ball help you figure out where/how to maneuver? What if they accidentally left the black ball up while underway?

I just don't get it.

Yup, you’ve got it right. There is no evidence (that anyone has presented) that these dayshapes make any measurable difference, but they are clearly part of the rules.

Hoist them if you like, or more importantly, where they are the norm. In North America, and apparently many other places (anecdotes vary…), they are definitely NOT the norm. But there are places where they are used.

So as the saying goes, “When in Rome…”

[wesevans]

Most pleasure craft under 60' do not comply with this regulation.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Here’s one near Corsica in 2018...... CSL Virginia at anchor, Ulysses underway. [ATTACH]266309

Interesting, but irrelevant to this discussion. We’re talking about recreational boats, NOT commercial vessels.

Again, it seems clear to me this rule, like so many others, come from the world of large (mostly commercial) vessels. It probably does make sense for this class of boat. It clearly is not needed for our kinds of vessels.

There are lots of exemptions in the Colregs for smaller vessels. This should be one of them. Maybe a future iteration of the regs will recognize this fact.

In the meantime, if you want to hoist one, fill your boots. Can’t hurt… won’t help, but can’t hurt.

[Davo1404]

Had a few laughs last year while cruising the Queensland coast. Would be showing a black ball while at anchor. Other vessels would arrive & the occasional one would be seen rummaging around in a locker. Then a rather tatty looking ball would see the daylight for the first time in years!! Then the head scratching would start as they were figuring out how to attach it!

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

There are lots of exemptions in the Colregs for smaller vessels. This should be one of them. Maybe a future iteration of the regs will recognize this fact.

Interestingly, I'm of the opinion that many of the small boat exemptions in the COLREGS are relics of the past. The idea that smaller boats get dimmer nav lights is dumb at this point, for example. That made sense when powering lights was a big deal, but with modern electrical systems and LED lights, the brighter lights are no big deal to power.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by cappy208

... Are ‘Stop Signs’ recommend or required to be obeyed? Do Red lights at an intersection mean stop, unless you don’t want to?...

Ever ...

• Roll a stop sign.
• Speed 5 over, or even 10-20 over if that is the flow of traffic and perhaps when it just feels slow or we are late (which is irrelevant).
• U-turn where you should not.
• Park illegally if the lot or street is full.
• Drive in the rain or mist without your lights on (daytime).
• Drive with a lamp out (no waiting several days to get it fixed--fix it now)
• Use a cell phone poorly while driving. Includes looking at it at lights.
• Ignore the 15 mph sign near speed humps.

Yes, nearly everyone does these things either most of the time or whenever they seem needful. Everyone does at least one.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Interestingly, I'm of the opinion that many of the small boat exemptions in the COLREGS are relics of the past. The idea that smaller boats get dimmer nav lights is dumb at this point, for example. That made sense when powering lights was a big deal, but with modern electrical systems and LED lights, the brighter lights are no big deal to power.

Ah… good point. The regs should reflect reality. There’s no question that a bright anchor light is a useful tool. And as you say, there’s no reason for small craft to get a pass on the use of them.

So too with the use of dayshapes. They serve no useful purpose for smaller vessels, so get rid of the rule.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

.......
So too with the use of dayshapes. They serve no useful purpose for smaller vessels, so get rid of the rule.

So how else are you going to identify the scofflaws among us in your anchorage???

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

That's for vessels under 12m in length only.

Which is likely most pleasure craft in Canada...