Day Shapes while Anchoring

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Rule 9. The bit about vessels under 20 meters shall not impede passage of vessels that can only navigate within a narrow channel or fairway. For the ship pilot, knowing if a boat is anchored or just stopped (maybe fishing) is useful in knowing whether they can just move out of the way or not.

Yes, but again, the freighter pilot is dealing with reality as presented. If a vessel is not moving, regardless of showing the dayshape, surely THIS is what drives the navigational decision.

It may make it easier in this hypothetical situation, but it doesn’t change how a pilot will navigate.

Originally Posted by Lodesman

"Special anchorage areas" are defined in US Inland Rules, so it's not likely you'll find them in Canadian waters. That doesn't mean they're "mythical" though.

Right… which is why I was explicit when I responded to a suggestion that they existed up here. They seem unique to the USA, and even there seem quite uncommon (according to Thin, whom I trust as a reliable source).

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Yeah, I didn't see the Colregs exemption for boats of our calibre - perhaps you can point that out?

I never said there was one. In fact, I’ve explicitly stated that the law is clear; there is no exemption for small craft. Perhaps you should read my posts before suggesting I said what I did not.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You didn't know the day signals, I provided a link.
You called Special Anchorage a myth, I provided a link.
As to veiled insults, Get what you give.

Where did you read I don’t know day shapes? Again, point to this, because now you’re just making things up.

I specifically was referencing CANADIAN waters when commenting on Special Anchorages, a fact you again seemed to have ignored. They are mythical here, yet some people keep referencing them as if they exist everywhere.

Perhaps if you actually read my posts, we could avoid all the nasty undercurrents.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, but again, the freighter pilot is dealing with reality as presented. If a vessel is not moving, regardless of showing the dayshape, surely THIS is what drives the navigational decision.

I'm thinking mostly of the situation mentioned where the pilot was calling boats via VHF. Knowing if they're anchored or not would determine if it's worth a call to see if that boat will move for you or if you're going to have to figure out how to get past them safely (because they can't just move).

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I'm thinking mostly of the situation mentioned where the pilot was calling boats via VHF. Knowing if they're anchored or not would determine if it's worth a call to see if that boat will move for you or if you're going to have to figure out how to get past them safely (because they can't just move).

Yes, I can see where it might make it easier.

[Rumrace]

It use to be in the back of the lame provincial boating book.
The theory most people assume and don’t read seems to be confirmed regularly.
The Flag says “ this boat can not move.
The other stationary Flag “ Diver Below” and the anchor flag and diver flag were raised every time we dropped 22-24 divers on Georgian Bay shipwrecks. One day anchored beside a amateur wreck dive a rare large black hull boat came straight at us. After a few minutes of concern for 24 lives I shot a flare across his bow. He called the OPP said I was shooting at him. I told the OPP if I had a 50 I would have written off his motors. He was inside the dive area when he turned.
Apparently they wanted to know if they could sign up for a dive. No.
People don’t read signs or flags but it’s nice to see someone understand their reason and use them.

[Mike OReilly]

I'm going to exit this thread now, and put it on ignore. It's all be said, over and over, and now some people (me included) are just getting testy. So best to leave now.

If anyone wants to say anything to me, I'm always available via PM. I'm happy to respond to specific questions/comments/insults, but I think it best to sail off to more useful threads.

[chrisr]

[QUOTE=IslandHopper;3697874]

Originally Posted by chrisr

Queensland does for one (light)

https://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Navigation-lights

happy to be corrected - there was bound to be somewhere and we all know qld is 'special'

however - although it's been a few years since we passed through qld - i can clearly recall the thousands of moored boats, and never a one of them showing an anchor light. obviously a rule that msq does not enforce ?

certainly never been any such rule in nsw...

cheers,

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Have you ever entered an anchorage or mooring field on a pitch black night?
Anchor lights are very helpful in this situation.
Not having an anchor light is confusing. Care to explain how an anchor light can be confusing?

I encourage anyone who does not use one to reconsider their approach.
In times of cheap powerful LED, cheap powerful batteries and solar panels, it really takes zero effort in money or power to have one single LED running all night.
It makes your boat easier to spot, saves your bacon in case someone hits it nevertheless and is a kind gesture to the perhaps exhausted and wet skipper trying to find a save spot on that rainy moonless night.


Yes, some folks have radar and that helps, but by far not all. A searchlight is not always that practical and might make you loose your night vision at a critical moment in time when entering an anchorage.

yes, of course we've entered a crowded mooring field at night (more times than i care to remember) and as i mentioned several times i'm thinking of the legality of the thing.

i've already said i can see how there can be some merit in some situations

btw, to clarify : i'm not thinking about cruising areas with visiting boats on visitors moorings for a few days. i'm thinking about the many thousands of moored boats that rot on waterways all over the world - may get used once a month if lucky. (see image)

certainly technically feasible to have an anchor light on all of them, but my question is "is it legally required under colregs ??"

cheers,

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by chrisr

certainly technically feasible to have an anchor light on all of them, but my question is "is it legally required under colregs ??",

Well this isn't an authorative article, but it does outline the position in Australia:
http://www.petreamccarthy.com/wp-con...hor-lights.pdf

In NSW and Tasmania boats on registered moorings and in recognised mooring areas are excused from the anchor Iight requirement. Other states, while not having specific exemptions, folìow the accepted practice that boats on registered moorings are not obliged to show an anchor light.

Queensìand currently takes a harder stance. The marketing and education manager for Maritime Safety Queensland, David Oelrichs, said boat owners who had their boats moored to an approved mooring buoy were required to display an all- round white light because they were considered under the COLREGS to be at anchor.

So queensland really does believe that a boat on a mooring is anchored per colregs, NSW and Tas deliberately removed ambiguity with overriding legislation, and the rest don't care.

[Noahr]

It is not required in an officially designated anchorage area.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by chrisr

yes, of course we've entered a crowded mooring field at night (more times than i care to remember) and as i mentioned several times i'm thinking of the legality of the thing.



i've already said i can see how there can be some merit in some situations



btw, to clarify : i'm not thinking about cruising areas with visiting boats on visitors moorings for a few days. i'm thinking about the many thousands of moored boats that rot on waterways all over the world - may get used once a month if lucky. (see image)



certainly technically feasible to have an anchor light on all of them, but my question is "is it legally required under colregs ??"



cheers,

Horrible place on the image.

But yes why should they not have an anchor light. Practically it would be absolutely helpful for anyone of these to have an anchor light.

Don't see how the daily or monthly usage plays into it.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Noahr

It is not required in an officially designated anchorage area.

No, but it's useful nevertheless...

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Noahr

It is not required in an officially designated anchorage area.

It’s only in “Special Anchorage Areas” where sounds, lights and shapes are not required.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-3...ter-I/part-110
There are 251 such areas, some have sub-areas clustered together. That means that not all designated anchorage areas are Special Anchorage Areas probably on the order of 5%.

And this only occurs in the USA. Other jurisdictions may have similar arrangements but I’ve never heard it mentioned here on CF.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Jenneau Owner

...I have sailed professionally...



When entering a anchorage and deciding where to anchor it helps to understand if neighbouring boats are at anchor or on a mooring. Obviously turning circles for moored boats and anchored are considerably different with changes in weather and tidal flows....

Professionally? Then you know that COLREGS considers a mooring and anchored to be the same thing, and your rule of thumb or reason is false.



§ 82.5Lights for moored vessels.
For the purposes of Rule 30 of the 72
COLREGS, avessel at anchorincludes a
barge made fast to one or more moor-
ingbuoysorothersimilardeviceat-
tached to the sea or river floor. Such a
barge may be lighted as a vessel at an-
chorinaccordancewithRule30,or
maybelightedonthecornersinac-
cordance with 33 CFR 88.13.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Professionally? Then you know that COLREGS considers a mooring and anchored to be the same thing, and your rule of thumb or reason is false.



§ 82.5Lights for moored vessels.
For the purposes of Rule 30 of the 72
COLREGS, avessel at anchorincludes a
barge made fast to one or more moor-
ingbuoysorothersimilardeviceat-
tached to the sea or river floor. Such a
barge may be lighted as a vessel at an-
chorinaccordancewithRule30,or
maybelightedonthecornersinac-
cordance with 33 CFR 88.13.

can you tell us where this quote is from please ?

cheers,