Day Shapes while Anchoring

[wrwakefield]

We have several round fenders [Polyform A-2s]- one is black [dual purpose...]

We hoist it on the inner forestay when anchoring in areas where another boat- or a float plane- may venture.

It is rare for us to see another vessel in most of the locations we choose to anchor, but it happens. Float planes landing, and occasionally helocopters, too.

Our masthead anchor light is supplemented by two additional 2+ mile all around lights: one each at the bow and stern.

We also leave our AIS squawking for good measure.

The time required is negligible, and the cost is miniscule- especially compared to the consequences of even one mishap...

But we are conservative: we even move off to the side when passing large vessels in narrow waterways. [I know... Wimps!]

Just our way of thinking...

Cheers! Bill

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

You are implying (but do not reference) that you have data on the relative risk of at anchor collisions between North America and Europe. Do you? Or are you just making that up?

Here is a hint: Not being able to find such data does NOT prove your point...

I have looked for such data, and cannot find it. Have you looked? As I said, if the data showed any benefit, I might be persuaded.

I state, I do not imply, that IF there is a difference, it should be visible in collision-at-anchor data. Certainly insurance companies, if not law enforcement, have an interest in the issue, so I infer that IF there is a difference, it should be visible.

Hint: Lack of data proves nothing, but an open mind should use this as a starting point.

And I have ZERO interest in a bun-fight over this. Fly the shape if you like. I was simply stating the reality as I see and experience it.

[ItDepends]

Time set this thread to "Ignore".

When people express pride at being ignorant or distainful of the rules (or both), it's time for me to go elsewhere...

It's one thing to say "I'm too damn lazy to put up a dayshape," or "I am too damn cheap to buy one," or even "What the hell is a dayshape?"

But I who am I too ague in favor of a rule that makes you "proud" to ignore.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

Time set this thread to "Ignore".

When people express pride at being ignorant or distainful of the rules (or both), it's time for me to go elsewhere...

It's one thing to say "I'm too damn lazy to put up a dayshape," or "I am too damn cheap to buy one," or even "What the hell is a dayshape?"

But I who am I too ague in favor of a rule that makes you "proud" to ignore.

Um…. It was a joke. Sorry you didn’t get it.

Because I am in the no anchor ball camp and also in the United States, which always has the contrary view to the Europeans in these repetitive threads, I joked that I am a “proud American” displaying no anchor ball.

This thread has been done several times already. Same results every time.

[boatpoker]

Your honour I'm not required to follow Collision Regulations because it's too much trouble and the $10 cost is exhorbitant.

Good luck with that

A collision almost always places blame on both parties.
An allision rarely places blame on the stationary vessel. (an anchored vessel with a anchor day signal
Will rarely be assigned partial fault as it is considered stationary).

[JPA Cate]

I'm with boatpoker on this one.

A friend of ours was about to be charged with involuntary manslaughter, because two young drunk men ran into her boat while she was anchored, in the Brisbane River, with her anchoring light displayed correctly in the forward part of her rigging. Sadly, both young men died.

What saved her was the testimony from herself and other yachties that she displayed both the anchor ball in the daytime, and the anchor light all night. The lady is a writer, and it was really scary for all the cruisers that she was in such danger because of people upset about the deaths, when she had done nothing wrong.

There's way too much (in my opinion) riding on it to not display the anchor ball. Jim puts up the anchor ball just after he drops the anchor and it has been set. We generally keep it right on deck at the mast, so it is only a moment to the topping lift to hoist it. Making it simple to do -- and a matter of habit-- helps.

Ann

[Franziska]

As mentioned earlier, we use it the ball every time at anchor.

At night we have the masthead anchor light on but leave some lighting on in our bridgedeck too.
So someone driving by sees us better.

Not a big fan on other lights which can be confused with navigation lights or even floating buoys/navigation aid lights.

We also leave the AIS running. We sleep much better with increased visibility to other vessels...

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by Franziska

As mentioned earlier, we use it the ball every time at anchor.

At night we have the masthead anchor light on but leave some lighting on in our bridgedeck too.
So someone driving by sees us better.

Not a big fan on other lights which can be confused with navigation lights or even floating buoys/navigation aid lights.

We also leave the AIS running. We sleep much better with increased visibility to other vessels...

I wonder how relevant the practice is when in some home waters like mine in Miami, I venture that 90% of the people with some type of watercraft are oblivious to basic seamanship; not even understanding rules of the road- never mind the fine points of signaling. Every week we see moronic accidents with people losing their lives.

My guess is very situational, I expect very different outcomes if sailing in Maine vs South Florida

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

I wonder how relevant the practice is when in some home waters like mine in Miami, I venture that 90% of the people with some type of watercraft are oblivious to basic seamanship; not even understanding rules of the road- never mind the fine points of signaling. Every week we see moronic accidents with people losing their lives.

My guess is very situational, I expect very different outcomes if sailing in Maine vs South Florida

Bottom line and my last comment on this thread.
Would you rather be a plaintiff or a defendant ?

[Simi 60]

My rule for everything on the water
If in doubt, stay the f away.

If you are too dumb to figure out if a boat is anchored or not without a tiny black ball on the bow, stay the f away
If you don't know what the day shapes on that dredge means, stay the f away

Has worked well for the past 45 years on the water.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Bottom line and my last comment on this thread.
Would you rather be a plaintiff or a defendant ?

I'd rather people apply common sense.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

.

There's way too much (in my opinion) riding on it to not display the anchor ball. Jim puts up the anchor ball just after he drops the anchor and it has been set. We generally keep it right on deck at the mast, so it is only a moment to the topping lift to hoist it. Making it simple to do -- and a matter of habit-- helps.

Ann

Easy to make it visible on a boat with a mast
Not so on most powered vessels - the ones I have seen that have them can't be seen unless approaching from bow on and even then, I see the chain hanging down well before I notice a ball.

Chain hanging down and no wash is always my first indication that a boat is at anchor.

But, from a wanting to sue somone view I get your point.

[thinwater]

Interesting thread. In fact, I've published articles on COLREGS and unusual light combinations, supplemental lighting at anchor, and on red-over-green as applicable on smaller boats and boat with rotating masts (try to use a tricolor on a rotating mast!). I like the rules.


But I could count on one hand how many times I've seen a black ball (anchored) or cone (motoring) on my home waters. You will not see a black ball in a state- or city-managed mooring field, though those boats are technically "anchored" and are not exempt from shape and light rules. I only know of them from the rules. Few would recognize them and even fewer would be looking for them. The real question, with this and other technically illegal practices, is at what point, by accepted common practice and utter lack of enforcement, does something become accepted practice, not just by the public, but in terms of enforceability? I've seen a ball on the Pride of Baltimore when anchored, but never a cone when motoring. Anchor lights at night are a different matter; other than people that mistakenly believe a mooring field is exempt, compliance is >90% in most areas.



I don't think insurance could use that in these waters. That would be like claiming reckless driving for 3 mph over the speed limit. It would be hard to argue that a rule was accepted, when the state and city make no effort to enforce even in a mooring field in broad daylight. Not showing an anchor light is different, because that is common practice and LLE has been known to knock on boats.


I'm not sayin' the black ball is not a good idea. I'm just wondering if the strong language in this thread makes any sense.

[thinwater]

One more thing, as the plaintiff:


1. Did the lack of a black ball make the boat less visible?
2. Did you hit a stationary object because you weren't bloody looking where you were going.
3. Please explain how a black ball would have made you maneuver differently? Where you maneuvering to avoid and you thought the boat was moving? Really?


I don't see where the argument goes. If you hit a tree, it is hard to blame the tree.

[Kelkara]

The question to ask is what information does an anchor ball display, and how might someone use that info?

A ball lets an approaching boat know that you are not underway and will not be giving way under any circumstances. A boat that would otherwise be stand-on is then able to take avoiding action early without having to wait to see if you engage forward gear and get out of their way. It also lets an approaching boat know that it is safe to pass in front of your bow or pass "green to green", because you will not suddenly engage forward gear or turn to get out of their way.

A large difficult to manoeuvre boat piloting in a crowded place might find this information valuable ... but less so for those of us in lttle manoeuvrable boats.


Having said that I have never seen a yacht or fishing boat use an anchor ball here (including me) ... but the big ships all have one.