Does anyone sail now or have sailed before without a motor

[Estrellita]

Alot of people keep mentioning sailing against tide and wind in a narrow channel or ICW, someone mentioned juniper channel, a few others talked about sailing into a marina and dock. I have a 40ft boat with no engine. I'm not trying to dock or go into a marina. I'm also not going down the ICW or some inlet that would be difficult if I had an engine. I stay in the ocean.
The reason I would like to stop in Fernandina Beach is that I've spent time there and im familiar with that inlet and everything else in that area so I'm not going blind. Of course many things can go wrong but that's why you plan and prepare for the worst hope for the best. If conditions aren't not ideal. Im not going to force anything. I can heave to or anchor till the time is right to enter an inlet I know. I'm not stopping anywhere else after that. Straight to Key West.
My first time to Key West I sailed from Miami to Key West without a motor and no wind the whole way,it took almost 3 days. The wind picked up and got me there at 4am exhausted and my GPS blanked out as soon as I started getting close. The only time that I need that GPS to work and it quit at the worst possible time. I got as close as I could in the darkness and dropped anchor till the next day.. So I'm pretty familiar with westeria/xmass tree island and Fleming Key where I'm dropping anchor when I arrive.
As a solo sailor I don't sleep much. Naps in the cock pit. I've never had an auto pilot, one of these days I will but for now I always stay awake during the night and if I sleep at all it's during the day. I have a timer I can heave to or I drop anchor off the coast of beaches a few miles off. One time I woke up on a sand bar and thought I was sinking but I was beached. I got a cool picture of the sunrise and got the bottom scrapped. Tide came in and I was on my way.
I'm really tired of depending on engines that always fail at the worse possible time. I'm getting better with motors as time goes on. I plan on fixing this one myself but will take time and I'm not going to depend on it. I'm planning my trip as if I don't have one and if I get it fixed along the way, then I can celebrate with a beer.

[David M]

Sailing a larger vessel, (something other than a day sailor) without an engine puts huge limitations on what you can do. And/or increases the time it takes to do something. In my opinion, it is not worth the money saved or the miniscule amount of pollution prevented

Sailing without an engine can be a huge safety problem if you get yourself into a situation where you REALLY need an engine to get you out of a jam.

Also with many marinas, you cannot sail a boat inside the marina over a specified length....you must use an engine.

[Estrellita]

Picture of waking up on a sandbar at sunrise beached

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Estrellita

Alot of people keep mentioning sailing against tide and wind in a narrow channel or ICW, someone mentioned juniper channel, a few others talked about sailing into a marina and dock. I have a 40ft boat with no engine. I'm not trying to dock or go into a marina. I'm also not going down the ICW or some inlet that would be difficult if I had an engine. I stay in the ocean.
The reason I would like to stop in Fernandina Beach is that I've spent time there and im familiar with that inlet and everything else in that area so I'm not going blind. Of course many things can go wrong but that's why you plan and prepare for the worst hope for the best. If conditions aren't not ideal. Im not going to force anything. I can heave to or anchor till the time is right to enter an inlet I know. I'm not stopping anywhere else after that. Straight to Key West.
My first time to Key West I sailed from Miami to Key West without a motor and no wind the whole way,it took almost 3 days. The wind picked up and got me there at 4am exhausted and my GPS blanked out as soon as I started getting close. The only time that I need that GPS to work and it quit at the worst possible time. I got as close as I could in the darkness and dropped anchor till the next day.. So I'm pretty familiar with westeria/xmass tree island and Fleming Key where I'm dropping anchor when I arrive.
As a solo sailor I don't sleep much. Naps in the cock pit. I've never had an auto pilot, one of these days I will but for now I always stay awake during the night and if I sleep at all it's during the day. I have a timer I can heave to or I drop anchor off the coast of beaches a few miles off. One time I woke up on a sand bar and thought I was sinking but I was beached. I got a cool picture of the sunrise and got the bottom scrapped. Tide came in and I was on my way.
I'm really tired of depending on engines that always fail at the worse possible time. I'm getting better with motors as time goes on. I plan on fixing this one myself but will take time and I'm not going to depend on it. I'm planning my trip as if I don't have one and if I get it fixed along the way, then I can celebrate with a beer.

What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice, with the sole intent to help you.

You added details about your desires, plans and experience. That's the kind of information, that if put in your top post or Original Post that started this discussion, would have helped others understand your POV and experience and style of sailing.

Others probably assumed you were asking for advice on Inlets and stopping points on the coast, as your Original Post was brief and did not describe your experience in Key West, faulty navigation gear, lack of Autopilot, or previous groundings etc. You did mention you had not sailed a boat without a working engine.

Your original post did ask for advice.

"I was wondering if anyone out there has much experience sailing without a motor, beside a little one that wouldn't have a motor in the first place? Thoughts, experiences, lessons learned. Anything you might think would be useful.
I've had times when my motor failed during an ocean passage and a few times going down a river, but I've never truly sailed without one. I just got a new 41 foot sailboat and having some motor problems and am getting ready to just sail off and deal with the motor another day when ever I get to my destination.
I understand checking weather and wind direction. Also making sure I have a incoming tide when I get to the inlet I need to enter. I know how to heave to. I haven't done it in this boat but I'll figure it out once I'm out in the ocean. I know I need to know this boat which is new and I think a great way is to just take it out in the ocean where it belongs. My destination is the keys. I think it would be great not to rely on a motor."

________

Here are a few more thoughts:
Given the size and type of your boat, don't be surprised if other boaters on this forum, or those you will encounter in those passes between reefs or in channels or anchorages, expect you to have a working auxiliary engine, especially if the winds are light and there is traffic.

Finally, don't be surprised if a thread you start goes off in a different direction than you expected. A title on a forum will draw people who will comment on the TITLE or TOPIC and those comments may not be specific or limited to your own needs or personal interests. Those comments may help others who read the topic or search for it in the future.

Good luck.

[StuM]

Post #1: I've never truly sailed without one.

Post # 91: My first time to Key West I sailed from Miami to Key West without a motor and no wind the whole way,it took almost 3 days.

I'm always a bit suspicious when stories change drastically.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by StuM

Post #1: I've never truly sailed without one.

Post # 91: My first time to Key West I sailed from Miami to Key West without a motor and no wind the whole way,it took almost 3 days.

I'm always a bit suspicious when stories change drastically.

Hmm... now that you mention oddities, how about completing an engineless passage with NO WIND THE WHOLE WAY? That's a lot of rudder sculling!

Jim

PS I'm not really at all familiar with that area, so perhaps there was a helpful current..

[Don C L]

As much as I would love to go engineless....... realistically, well.... While I could sail in and around the local harbors and anchorages, and my boat is small enough and barely nimble enough to handle it wherever I want to go, BUT.. in my neighborhood things can go pretty calm sometimes and you could sit around waiting for quite a while, which is not so bad if you don't have a schedule and don't mind. But the fly in the ointment around here is that we have a shipping lane that is occasionally like a shipping highway with container ships lined up and racing by at 15 to 20 knots. If I happen to get stuck in the shipping lane bobbing around I'd be a sitting duck without an engine... realistically... and yet, I'm right there with ya! I dream of freeing myself of that infernal internal combustion! I will say my oars do work ok but only for getting me in and out of calm anchorages and harbors though so far!
You might check out this social group for the 5 or 6 six of us engineless wannabes!
Cruisers & Sailing Forums - Engineless
oh and on edit, if I had to singlehand, or even not singlehand, a 41' steel hull, she'd better be VERY nimble, and responsive in light air. A smaller, lighter boat is definitely a more realistic possibility, or maybe a J30 or Santa Cruz 40... I could see that...

[seashine]

¡Hola! In the 80s I sailed an engineless Herreshoff Nereia (36') with his classic long keel cutaway a bit at the bow... we had all sorts of adventures and my best advice is: get that mizzen happening!! It can be sheeted out to the side to help bring her around, you can heave to more easily to wait for a better time to enter a port etc etc Also: never forget the handbrake - make sure there's an anchor ready to drop that can bring you up short as a gust of wind tries to land you on top of the expensive plastic yachts... And a sculling oar can be a real boon. For that matter I towed her once in the oar powered tender - arm over arm to keep way on 🚣*♀️
I note you haven't filled in the hole where the prop would have once been: if you're really going to be engineless I recommend streamlining your hull by filling this in ☺⛵

[seashine]

Originally Posted by seashine

¡Hola! In the 80s I sailed an engineless Herreshoff Nereia (36') with his classic long keel cutaway a bit at the bow... we had all sorts of adventures and my best advice is: get that mizzen happening!! It can be sheeted out to the side to help bring her around, you can heave to more easily to wait for a better time to enter a port etc etc Also: never forget the handbrake - make sure there's an anchor ready to drop that can bring you up short as a gust of wind tries to land you on top of the expensive plastic yachts... And a sculling oar can be a real boon. For that matter I towed her once in the oar powered tender - arm over arm to keep way on 🚣
I note you haven't filled in the hole where the prop would have once been: if you're really going to be engineless I recommend streamlining your hull by filling this in ☺⛵

P.S: I don't recommend getting towed out of a harbour, we did this in St Pierre on Réunion Island because there was no wind (it's a tight harbour to sail into or out of) and after we dropped the tow the current started to set us back towards the jagged cliffs...luckily a catabatic wind kicked in and our next problem was reefing before all the ocean on the side deck cascaded through our open portholes... a great start to 6.5 weeks of ocean passage ;-)

[barnakiel]

I can't remember many days when we were not able to sail say 20 to 30 miles on one sun. Covering say 250 maybe 300 miles in a week of "dead" calm zones. This should get you into the wind zone in a week or two.

And all that in a hull that by today's standards is full and slow.

Calms are never dead. But some good cruising boats are simply not good sailing boats. And some boat owners are not good sailors either. These two things tend to compound, somehow. Some people who have poorer sailing skills tend to get heavier boats and rely on engines more.

If you think you want to do a lot of sailing and very little motoring, get something that fits the job: a J, an X or maybe even something more extreme - Pogo Structures (-like) boat, a Moore 24, etc.

Horses for the courses. If engineless boats tubs like Santa Maria could cross Highs and convergences, a modern light boat should be able to do the same with much ease.

Cheers,
b.

[sailor1924]

Originally Posted by Estrellita

I'm waiting until I get to Key West and a job to get a dinghy and motor. That's my destination and where I will get a job and start on all these boat projects and get what I need to succeed, as of now I'm doing my best winging it. I think it's a big accomplishment going without a motor. It's something I want to do. I want to fix the motor myself and I need a class or to a little more time and better weather. It's one more thing I'll take care of when I get to the keys. I think I am going to wait for the winds to change and leave more towards Nov 1 instead of now. So I'm not sailing straight into the wind during the peak of hurricane season

I'll echo that the best sail for an engineless bigger boat is the mizzen. And if you're sailing short handed a self tacking jib is a pleasure.

If you're going to find work in Key West do you have a plan for how you'll go ashore with out a dinghy?

Your original post was about what size boats could be sailed w/o an engine. When I was first learning about cruising under sail I studied the writings of Donald Street, The Ocean Sailing Yacht 1, & 2, who sailed an engineless 46' yawl all over the Atlantic, both sides, and, was an expert cartographer of the Caribbean.

"as of now I'm doing my best winging it"

I sailed a; 60' cutter ketch that weighed 40 ton and drew 8', without an engine for three years. There is no room for a reckless attitude when moving that kind of mass you cannot muscle a bigger boat; you must finesse it, winging it won't work.
Sailing the boat was not difficult. Stopping it is the trick that needs to be learned well. All of the comments that have been made that describe the various skills needed: kedging, yawl boat use, warping in or off a dock, backing sails, are true and useful.
I would restate that a thoughtful and considerate view is necessary. I never had any overwhelming problems when sailing without the engine because I very carefully preplanned ever approach, anchoring event and a limited number of dockings that happened during those years.
One of the the critical attitudes for me was the willingness to wait, and sometimes; just not show up for work rather then take any risks in boat handling. (It helped to have a somewhat understanding boss.)
The most physically challenging part was recovering the anchor. None of the crew that sailed with me the first summer ever sailed with me again claiming back problems. I didn't start single handing the boat until after I put in an engine, an auto pilot, roller furling on the Yankee, and had power to the windlass.
I think, considering all, I'd wait a bit for the trip described and do some refit on the boat. And buy a dinghy with a motor that can be used as a yawl boat and shore taxi. I'll say that your voyaging has already started and impatience has no place on an engineless boat.

[David M]

In this day and age it is not a practical and responsible thing to be sailing around without an engine once you get into a certain size category. Additionally, most marinas ban the sailing of vessels over 20-25 feet or so inside of their marina.

Yeah it can be done and some do, but for what practical purpose? Ok, so if one hates the oil companies or whatever. I can see it for philosophical purposes in those cases if they are willing to suffer the downside, such as being pushed into the rocks if your anchor drags in a stiff breeze and you cannot sail out.

[Waterrat10]

Originally Posted by Alberg30Shill

I can't recommend this guy's video enough. Nice chap, I met him when he was anchored opposite my slip in Baltimore last summer. https://youtu.be/QqUG6Fpdfps

I just watched all three of these videos. Relatively concise illustration of obviously honed skills. A lot of good info can be mined from all three.

Quite a bit of great info in the rest of this thread.