Dutchman sail flaking system

[drwayne]

This system is installed on a Valiant 32. It seems to increase the effort required to raise the mainsail . Is this "normal" for this system or are adjustments in order?
Wayne

[keepondancin]

Needs adjustment, possibly tension and or location on topping lift. When I had the Dutchman on my Crealock 37, it added no effort at all to hoisting. Got to dutchmar.com

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by drwayne

This system is installed on a Valiant 32. It seems to increase the effort required to raise the mainsail . Is this "normal" for this system or are adjustments in order?
Wayne

By itself it shouldn’t cause more effort to raise. Try some sail lube on the slugs as that helps and be sure the sail is luffing while raising

I’ve a Dutchman for 7 years and have never gotten it to “work” like they claim. And I’ve bet I’ve read that manual 15 times and spend hours and hours adjusting it!

Maybe it works better on smaller boats

[DLincoln3]

I have a Dutchman system on my Catalina 36. The main is really difficult to raise, but I think it has more to do with the full battens than the Dutchman. I find that the Dutchman does a great job of flaking the sail when I drop it.

Don

[Symphony]

I had a Dutchman on my 41’ Tartan. Huge mainsail. It was always a hassle at the first sail or two of the season to adjust the three filaments and the topping lift. Adjusting one affected the other three. And you need to do it with sail up.

But I felt it was well worth the hassle because perfect adjustment allowed me to effortlessly raise or furl the main while singlehanded. Combined with the electric winch I never hesitated to raise, reef or furl the main - meaning that as a singlehander I was never caught out with too much or too little sail.

To enjoy fast hoist or furling I found I needed Vang on, topping lift tight (which holds the top ends of the filaments), and the made the three filaments super straight. Once the sail is up or down you can relax the topping lift and set the Vang as needed.

Try this first, and if your main still balks going up or down you might suspect the sailmaker didn’t line up the filament holes straight?

[Scaramanga F25]

Difficulty in raising a mainsail with a worn masthead sheave bearing would be my first check.

Also a fully battened big roach mainsail is quite difficult to raise as the full length battens put a high load on the track, even with batslides and special track. Next time I would use "batcars" i.e. with wheels.

[JOHNMARDALL]

I installed a Dutchman system on my previous boat, an Olympic 48, and found it to be one of the best and most value-for-money upgrades I ever made. It took a bit of fiddling around to get the clamps for the nylon filaments in the right place on the topping lift, but even that had more esthetic effect than anything else, the mainsail still flaked itself on to the boom very handsomely when everything was not perfectly aligned.
It's hard to imagine the Dutchman having much effect on the effort required to hoist the mainsail, and I suggest checking the condition of the masthead halyard sheave and lubricating the slug groove or track on the mast with a product made for the purpose to cure the most likely causes of the problem.

Good luck
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group

PS. The nylon filaments can be a little slack without causing a problem and that may also help a bit.

[bluenoser613]

The Dutchman system should not interfere in any way. Likely it is your full-length battens that make it difficult. Make sure they are not too tight in the pockets.

[Tayana42]

I have a Dutchman system on my Tayana 42. When I bought a new main a couple of years ago I put on the Dutchman system again because I find it useful for controlling the sail when reefing or dropping. The main is about 400 sq ft and is fairly heavy cruising Dacron. The Dutchman does not add resistance to raising the sail.

Check your sheaves at mast head and those for your reefing lines. They may be inducing resistance to raising your main.

[bobmcd625]

Could someone briefly list the pros and cons of the Dutchman system vs other lazy jack arrangements? How hard is it to make up the necessary lines? Does not seem too hard, but what do I know?
Thanks in advance.

[Tayana42]

The Dutchman is dead simple, the sail just drops nicely flaked. It stays in place while sailing, nothing to deploy or arrange, nothing tangles or catches battens. Disadvantages are cost and need to modify sail cover.

[Tayana42]

Another disadvantage of the Dutchman is that rain and dirt run down the filaments and make the sail dirty.

[Symphony]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

Another disadvantage of the Dutchman is that rain and dirt run down the filaments and make the sail dirty.

haha. I thought the dirt lines were a positive, since I knew each spring which side to lead the filaments through the grommets.

PS I had a boat for years in Alamitos Bay, and another in Downtown marina

[Tayana42]

Ahoy Symphony. I’m in Alamitos Bay. Was in Downtown marina for 13 years then went cruising for three years. Now back. Sailed out of New Haven in a Seafarer 24 for a few years back in the 70s. Warmer here in SoCal right now.

[Symphony]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

Ahoy Symphony. I’m in Alamitos Bay. Was in Downtown marina for 13 years then went cruising for three years. Now back. Sailed out of New Haven in a Seafarer 24 for a few years back in the 70s. Warmer here in SoCal right now.

ahoy! truly small world to see that you and I switched places. I was racing dinghies in Long Beach when you were in New Haven.

yes, you have the better end of the bargain this month! I lived in Long Beach for four decades and was on or in the ocean almost daily. I had no idea people would ever pull a boat out of the water except to paint the bottom every so often.

I refused to get a boat when we first moved to New Haven because I thought it was insane to have the such expense but not be able to use the boat year round -- but I caved in after four years of no boat.

You must've had a great 3 year cruise in such a boat as your Tayana!