Falling in a vessel at a boat show

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Possibly the most accurate statement made in this thread..

Your animus is showing for all to see.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Your animus is showing for all to see.

Why aren't you sweet, putting your best thoughts forward so.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Ordinarily I would agree but that horse left the barn a long time ago and admitting he “looked (as he was proceeding)for hold points but there were none” isn’t a “good look” if trying to displace culpability.

As the adage goes, “When you’re in a hole, stop digging”

Well, maybe it will help someone else?

OP, I do feel for you. I have autoimmune arthritis and before my most recent treatment, it would often flare up quite badly in my lower spine and cause horrendous pain - especially the inflamed nerve pain, which is one of the worst types of pain ever because it’s impossible to get used to. But I don’t think arguing with people on this thread is going to accomplish any of your goals - it’s not going to help you get money to pay for any assistance you might need, it’s not going to get manufacturers to pay attention. I guess it might distract you from the pain some, I know I’ve used arguing on the internet for that purpose before, but it’s not super effective.

You are not going to convince most of the ppl posting on this thread now that there is something wrong with the boat design. It’s just not going to happen. Not worth the energy. (BTW, I agree that designers need to pay more attention to these things and design appropriately. A properly placed handle, as you know, can be the difference between an embarrassing slip and a major injury.)

And btw, the other comment about the coffee not being hot - McDonald’s coffee was still plenty hot. The issue wasn’t people not taking precautions, the issue was McDonald’s continuing to basically superheat the coffee to save a few pennies even though they had a raft of injuries reported and knew it was a very dangerous temperature. If you maintain something in a very dangerous state to others, especially *knowing* it is a very dangerous state, then you do bear some of the responsibly if someone is harmed by it being in that state. There was a clear action they could have taken to reduce harm - drop the temperature a bit so it was still hot but not insanely hot - and they deliberately chose not to. They are responsible for that choice, regardless of what the injured party did otherwise; they own that responsibility and that ‘share’ of the total responsibility for the incident. Because they chose not to fix the problem.

[Island Time O25]

The whole thread seems to turn into blame the victim exercise. An insurer's dream.

Contrary to the mass media blowing up actual settlement amounts the hard truth is not on the injured plaintiffs' side. For example in medical malpractice litigation area for every plaintiff successful jury verdict there were statistically speaking approximately 1,000 injured patients, including dead ones. Only about 100 of the 1,000 ever file a formal lawsuit in court. In my state, MA, the parties to a med mal suit must go through mandatory med panel first for the suit to proceed. After the panel issues its findings only about 10 cases are left of 100 and of the 10 only 1 or 2 get the plaintiff's verdict. And very seldom is it more than low six figures.

So for each "lawsuit lottery" winner there are about 1,000 people around either uncompensated or severely undercompensated. And to add insult to injury the insurance industry uses the 990 untried cases as an excuse to jack up the rates. So I would not call it a lottery but a casino where the insurance industry is the house.

Now the punchline (and it may be applicable to boatbuilders as well). Statistically about 5% of the doctors are responsible for 80+% of all the medical mistakes. But instead of thining those out from the profession AMA would rather have all of the doctors pay higher premiums and eventually pass them on to the patients. A scam if I ever saw one.

[Jim Cate]

No comments about the legal aspects of this situation, but I'm struck by how well and how much you can sit up and type when you can not even feed yourself or your cat.

Chronic back pain is nasty, and I sympathize with your discomfort and inconvenience, with hopes for a complete a nd rapid recovery. Yet the vitriolic attack on the unnamed cat builder and it's "inherently dangerous" design and claims that said design directly caused your injury are in my eyes suggestive of exaggeration (or worse).

And I count myself amongst those who try to take personal responsibility for my physical well being.

I do hope that your pain is reduced quickly.

Jim

[El Pinguino]

I think the sooner this thread is not only closed but also expunged from everyone's memory the better for all hands.

Go down backwards and it won't happen..? Oh yes it will if you can't see the bottom step.
I've taken a few spills coming down ( backwards ) slightly extended extension ladders on terra when the bottom rung has been obscured.

The design of the 'stairway' on that cat - no way can you call it a companionway - is rubbish.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Now the punchline (and it may be applicable to boatbuilders as well). Statistically about 5% of the doctors are responsible for 80+% of all the medical mistakes. But instead of thining those out from the profession AMA would rather have all of the doctors pay higher premiums and eventually pass them on to the patients. A scam if I ever saw one.

If we want to be honest about it, the real problem is the overall cost of health care. It costs so much more than it should. Everyone involved thinks they deserve to be rich on the provisioning of health care, and many are.

Hospitals, doctors, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and tort lawyers all get paid very, VERY handsomely.

And you're right, the AMA purposefully muddies the water. Keeps them in control, and healthcare profitable for all. They spend a lot of money on lobbyists and influence. It's in nobody's financial interest to fix it, other than the patients, and the whole system is designed to keep them in the dark.

None of this excuses the lawsuit lottery, however. We desperately need tort reform, and absolutely should limit damages to actual costs, with strict limits on "pain and suffering" and legal bills, which we all ultimately end up paying for.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

So, rich people can get more or better doctors, lawyers or Indian chiefs. What’s new?

Well, progressives like myself would say 'we are.' We are new. We'd like to see basic healthcare treated as a human right. We see we have the resources to do so, and we would prefer to live in a world where we made that choice.

Its similar to choosing to have firefighters: Sure, it costs money, lots of times houses burn down because of stupid stuff I would never do, but I'm happy to help fund that piece of our safety net. Its the kind of world I want to live in.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Well, progressives like myself would say 'we are.' We are new. We'd like to see basic healthcare treated as a human right. We see we have the resources to do so, and we would prefer to live in a world where we made that choice.

Its similar to choosing to have firefighters: Sure, it costs money, lots of times houses burn down because of stupid stuff I would never do, but I'm happy to help fund that piece of our safety net. Its the kind of world I want to live in.

If you want healthcare as a human right, you first have to minimize the costs.


So you have to do away with the lawsuit lottery, the attitude than any pharmaceutical is free, wealthy doctors, for-profit hospitals, and insurance companies, and Congress getting donations from any of the above. Good luck.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If you want healthcare as a human right, you first have to minimize the costs.


So you have to do away with the lawsuit lottery, the attitude than any pharmaceutical is free, wealthy doctors, for-profit hospitals, and insurance companies, and Congress getting donations from any of the above. Good luck.

Many countries remain with legal processes and have socialised Heathcare. In the rest of the world lawsuits are about compensation not specifically to cover medical costs ( though there may be an element of that. ) if I’m am carted off to public hospitals I pay a flat €100 fee and that’s it for the duration of the care .

But any lawsuit I might persue could award me for loss of earning ,change in lifestyle , missed opportunities , permanent medical care etc

Even if privately ensured here , which I am , my insurer will not instigate any legal action against another party. They will simply payout as per my private medical insurance terms . ( the excess and co-pays are now quite large in an attempt to reduce my annual insurance bills , it’s getting to be not worth it. )

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If you want healthcare as a human right, you first have to minimize the costs.

No... you first declare healthcare a universal human right, then you either challenge the private system to make it so (eg France), or you create a government-managed single-payer system (eg Canada). Then the costs come down. Once medical bills are no longer ruinous, then there's less need to fight insurers and others for money to pay them.

To the OP - concentrate on healing, get some help at home if you need it, and leave the rest to a lawyer. Many people recover fully from fractured backs. Make that your focus.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

No... you first declare healthcare a universal human right, then you either challenge the private system to make it so (eg France), or you create a government-managed single-payer system (eg Canada). Then the costs come down. Once medical bills are no longer ruinous, then there's less need to fight insurers and others for money to pay them.

Not really the right approach.

You will never, I repeat, NEVER fix health care in the U.S. until you address the costs and get buy in from the providers. Because they will fight you to the death before you uncurl their fingers from profits, and remove their death grip on our Congress.

It's a chicken and egg problem. And they are completely intertwined.

While some people like to play silly word games, they miss the actual point. On this issue, you have people with the best intentions lined up against people with aimless amounts of money and influence. Who wins that, every time?

And sadly, because of the current system, the U.S. ends up doing the heavy lifting on the cost of pharmaceuticals. Yes, the U.S. is subsidizing Canada, too. Oh, the humanity! In my opinion, we should start by fixing that.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Now the punchline (and it may be applicable to boatbuilders as well). Statistically about 5% of the doctors are responsible for 80+% of all the medical mistakes. But instead of thining those out from the profession AMA would rather have all of the doctors pay higher premiums and eventually pass them on to the patients. A scam if I ever saw one.

100% agree. Neither this propping up of lousy doctors nor the medico-legal liability jackpot lottery that you characterized serve patients well. Bad doctors keep doctoring and greedy lawyers get rich. Both need to be changed.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Many countries remain with legal processes and have socialised Heathcare. In the rest of the world lawsuits are about compensation not specifically to cover medical costs ( though there may be an element of that. ) if I’m am carted off to public hospitals I pay a flat €100 fee and that’s it for the duration of the care .

But any lawsuit I might persue could award me for loss of earning ,change in lifestyle , missed opportunities , permanent medical care etc

Even if privately ensured here , which I am , my insurer will not instigate any legal action against another party. They will simply payout as per my private medical insurance terms . ( the excess and co-pays are now quite large in an attempt to reduce my annual insurance bills , it’s getting to be not worth it. )

I'm all for that. We in the U.S. are the biggest consumers of pharmaceuticals, and pay more for them. We need to fix that. As the largest consumer, we should be paying LESS, not more.

Our physicians pay more for their education and their insurance, but they get paid a lot more than in Europe. I'd be in favor of subsidizing their education and paying lower salaries, and I'd be in favor of limiting lawsuits in order to reduce insurance premiums.

All of these are sensible measures. But the big money (AMA, lawyers, insurance companies) is in favor of the status quo.

[lestersails]

I would like to suggest this entire thread was off the rails from the start. At first it seemed to be an ask for some pretty straight up legal advice, which was provided (more than once). My digest is: get a non-maritime atty & OP should stop posting. Both of these seem to have been ignored - the OP continues to post, contrary to her professed interests, and has stated something along the lines of "I don't care about attorneys". So, that must not be what this is.

I am beginning to think that the only thing the OP wanted was uncritical sympathy for her plight. It is a valid thing for any person to ask for - one could be in pain, lonely, afraid for their future, sad at the loss of a dreamed-of life, etc. We see this often on TV - the media love to put unfortunate characters in front of us, make an overt sympathy ploy, ask no hard questions of them, and insinuate that someone else is to blame for all their misfortune. It is feel-good psychobabble blather. The media make it seem like this is a legitimate thing to do because it is simple, fits into a 23 minute window, but in fact it is just content to fill in between advertising.

One can ask for uncritical sympathy from friends and loved ones and in such real relationships, those friends and loved ones can well gauge how to balance the uncritical and the critical to best help their friend or loved one. Good friends and loved one shouldn't provide uncritical sympathy. The closest I ever got to uncritical sympathy was my mother, and even she would leaven it with a kind message that I may have contributed to my own sorry situation and to learn and grow from that. In my humble view, this legitimate human need and complex social interaction cannot be gotten from an online forum.

If my suggestion is valid - and I would humbly concede it is just a stab in the dark - madam please leave this thread. It cannot provide what you need. Instead, please reach out to your friends and loved ones, to emotional crisis help lines, to community mental health and support groups. Those are real human interactions that can provide you with what you need and deserve. The internet looks like real human interaction, but it just isn't. You are going to be frustrated and disappointed if you continue here.