Flag for the British crew member

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Good description, thanks.

I’m not sure about flying the courtesy flag together with the quarantine flag - my understanding is that you’re not yet cleared into the country so you don’t fly the courtesy flag. Quarantine flag as you enter the national waters. Once you’ve been cleared into the country (including health) then you lower the quarantine flag and hoist the courtesy flag.

Regarding the nationality flag(s) of the crew, they should be the land version. So for the UK it would be a Union Jack flag, while the courtesy flag (or registration flag of the vessel) would be the sea version, eg the red ensign. Some countries such as the US have only one official flag for land and sea (for recreational boats).

The U.K. has a Union flag the Union Jack is a Union flag on a Jack staff a privilege awarded to very few specific boats

[chrisr]

we have also noticed that it is becoming common to fly a small flag (similar to the courtesy flag) on port flag halyard to indicate the nationality of the crew where this is different to the vessel's flag state

personally i rather like this - as a social thing - but i don't like to devalue the courtesy flag by giving other 'social' flags similar status. thus when we do this we fly the flag from the bow, on a spare halyard - not on the mainmast

given that a flag like this has no official standing, i feel the national (union) flag would be more appropriate than the red ensign

cheers,

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by chrisr

we have also noticed that it is becoming common to fly a small flag (similar to the courtesy flag) on port flag halyard to indicate the nationality of the crew where this is different to the vessel's flag state

personally i rather like this - as a social thing - but i don't like to devalue the courtesy flag by giving other 'social' flags similar status. thus when we do this we fly the flag from the bow, on a spare halyard - not on the mainmast

given that a flag like this has no official standing, i feel the national (union) flag would be more appropriate than the red ensign

cheers,

Given the port flag halyard is the inferior position it’s appropriate to fly “ house “ flags there.

I’ve always taken the opinion that for the U.K. where crew flags are being the hoisted the regional flag is preferable over the Union flag as the wearing of a Union flag is reserved for special vessels. In fact U.K. rules suggest No “ land flags “ should be flown aboard vessels.

As a result of crew , I had Welsh , Scottish and the st Patrick’s ( Northern Ireland ) cross onboard as house flags !!

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I think you mean the Union flag , a Union Jack is a Union flag flown on a Jack staff.

In 1902 the British Admiralty proclaimed that "Flag" or "Jack" could be used officially.
In 1908 the Earl of Crewe stated to the House of Lords that the union "Jack" could be flown on land.
In 1933 Sir John Gilmour in his capacity as British Home Secretary also stated that the union "Jack" was the national flag and could be flown on land.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

These days the flying of Q flags is less rigorous,so my approach has always been to hoist the courtesy flag once inside territorial waters.

Quote from UK Authorities - other countries may be less robust in their approach and enforcement.



"For journeys that you must report, you must fly the yellow Q flag as soon as you enter UK waters (the 12-mile limit).
Make sure the flag can easily be seen and do not take it down until you’ve finished reporting to customs authorities.
If you do not comply you will be liable to a penalty."

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Given the port flag halyard is the inferior position it’s appropriate to fly “ house “ flags there.

I’ve always taken the opinion that for the U.K. where crew flags are being the hoisted the regional flag is preferable over the Union flag as the wearing of a Union flag is reserved for special vessels. In fact U.K. rules suggest No “ land flags “ should be flown aboard vessels.

As a result of crew , I had Welsh , Scottish and the st Patrick’s ( Northern Ireland ) cross onboard as house flags !!

Since the vessel in question is not under British Registry and is not in UK waters it would be quite acceptable to fly a union flag on the port spreader as a gesture to crew nationality.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

In 1902 the British Admiralty proclaimed that "Flag" or "Jack" could be used officially.
In 1908 the Earl of Crewe stated to the House of Lords that the union "Jack" could be flown on land.
In 1933 Sir John Gilmour in his capacity as British Home Secretary also stated that the union "Jack" was the national flag and could be flown on land.





Quote from UK Authorities - other countries may be less robust in their approach and enforcement.



"For journeys that you must report, you must fly the yellow Q flag as soon as you enter UK waters (the 12-mile limit).
Make sure the flag can easily be seen and do not take it down until you’ve finished reporting to customs authorities.
If you do not comply you will be liable to a penalty."

I’m well aware that in 1908 Parliament affirmed either term the rot started then afaik ! More popularism !

Most countries have no requirement for leisure boats to fly a Q flag requesting clearance

The U.K. position is different do to the collapse of E-borders

What the Q flag not symbolises is you have not reported your arrival. Once you have you may remove the flag

This is not the original purpose , nor does in the U.K. situation indicate the crew are cleared. It’s purely an arrivals reporting process.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Since the vessel in question is not under British Registry and is not in UK waters it would be quite acceptable to fly a union flag on the port spreader as a gesture to crew nationality.

I suppose so. Given the rubbish I see flown every day it’s not a big deal.

[El Pinguino]

All of His Majesty's Ships fly the union flag as a union jack or stem jack when at anchor or alongside. British merchant ships would fly the pilot jack ( union flag with a white border ) or more commonly a small house flag from the jackstaff.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

All of His Majesty's Ships fly the union flag as a union jack or stem jack when at anchor or alongside. British merchant ships would fly the pilot jack ( union flag with a white border ) or more commonly a small house flag from the jackstaff.

The pilot Jack is no longer a ships flag.

The civil Jack flown by merchant ships is not a Union flag. It’s a Union flag with a special white border

Quote from the RYA

The Union Flag or ‘Union Jack’ is the national flag of the United Kingdom. It is never used by British merchantmen or yachts and may only be used by ships of the Royal Navy. The ‘Union Jack' was officially acknowledged as an alternative name for the Union Flag by the Admiralty and Parliament in 1908.

[chrisr]

i love flag debates. they are my 3rd favourite debate...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjzRbgxZXz8

cheers,

[LobeliaBlue]

It is absolutely a legal requirement. The Port Capitan visited the Marina here last week and cited boats not flying a Mexican flag in the correct position.

[leecea]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The U.K. has a Union flag the Union Jack is a Union flag on a Jack staff a privilege awarded to very few specific boats

"The Union Flag, or Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom." - https://www.royal.uk/union-jack

There are theories as to the origin of the name "Union Jack" and royal.uk says "The term 'Union Jack' possibly dates from Queen Anne's time (r. 1702-14), but its origin is uncertain."

One of the theories is "may be derived from a proclamation by Charles II that the Union Flag should be flown only by ships of the Royal Navy as a jack, a small flag at the bowsprit" - it's just a theory.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The pilot Jack is no longer a ships flag.

The civil Jack flown by merchant ships is not a Union flag. It’s a Union flag with a special white border

Quote from the RYA

The Union Flag or ‘Union Jack’ is the national flag of the United Kingdom. It is never used by British merchantmen or yachts and may only be used by ships of the Royal Navy. The ‘Union Jack' was officially acknowledged as an alternative name for the Union Flag by the Admiralty and Parliament in 1908.

And what I see on the Internet is that a Red Ensign is proper flag for a British vessel.

As for a flag to indicate the nationality of a crew member, which is a frivolous and silly habit and not in keeping with any nautical tradition as far as I am concerned, a small union flag (union jack) seems like it would be acceptable as would flags for Scotland, Wales, whatever. Dumb.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by LobeliaBlue

It is absolutely a legal requirement. The Port Capitan visited the Marina here last week and cited boats not flying a Mexican flag in the correct position.

This is the first I've heard of this in Mexico. In which port did this occur? What do you mean "cited" some sort of ticket or fine or summons? What?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The pilot Jack is no longer a ships flag.

The civil Jack flown by merchant ships is not a Union flag. It’s a Union flag with a special white border

Quote from the RYA

The Union Flag or ‘Union Jack’ is the national flag of the United Kingdom. It is never used by British merchantmen or yachts and may only be used by ships of the Royal Navy. The ‘Union Jack' was officially acknowledged as an alternative name for the Union Flag by the Admiralty and Parliament in 1908.

I thought that was what I said
'British merchant ships would fly the pilot jack'
'Would' implying past tense.

Sadly the red ensign is nothing more than one of the lesser flags of convenience these days.