Forum Restructure

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

uc, question: I understand your point, but my understanding is that the custom Google search here is a shortcut to doing this:

site:cruisersforum.com impeller replacement

Isn't it?

If not, your point is extremely important.

There's what StuM said, that I'd alluded to. Though by custom Google search, in this instance I'm referring to the box which drops down as one of the search options when you click on the search tab. Which is but one of the ways to search on here.
You can also do a simple search as first offered when you click on the search tab.
There's the Advanced Search option; with multiple sub-options
- Search by phrase/key word in a post's title
- Search by phrase/key word in a post's text
- Search by posting CF member
- other's I've not much tried, that don't spring to mind right this sec.

So that's half a dozen or so ways right there. And I use them all but for the (first) simple search option. Which, being able to search the site via multiple vectors, thusly, lets me find things fairly easily. Or so it seems, as I've yet to much "compare notes" with anyone as to what makes the most efficacious search.

And as mentioned before, what results a Google (or Google based) search will turn up for you will vary wildly from one person to another. So that for instance, the more you use Google (or Bing, etc.) to search for sailing stuff, the more it skews your searches towards said subjects, & along specifiic lines. More or less regardless of the computer once it figures out who you are, based on how you're searching, & for what. As yes, it's easy to ID someone via their searching or browsing habits.

[jeepbluetj]

I agree that it would be nice to cut down on the "I've never been on a boat before and live in Iowa. Is a San Juan 24 a good boat for a Pacific ocean voyage?" type of posts. But it won't happen. It's a forum and that's what forums are for.

Better search would maybe help. Good sticky design might help. Other than that it's no different than folks sitting around a bar chatting.

And YES! get that San Juan 24. It's a great ocean boat........

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by gjordan

OK, I am a long way from being a newb on this forum or in sailing, but where the hell is this google custom search hiding. Many of us (Gerital set) have limited web skills and dont know the features that DONT SHOW UP. I think for many a better primer on using CF would be valuable. Just my Luditte opinion. _____Grant.

Go to the top blue bar on the screen, right underneath of where it says "World Cruising and Sailing Wild", & there's the word "Search" in white. Click once on the arrow beside the word Search & a sub-menu will drop down. And in it there are multiple search options; basic (unnamed), advanced, custom, & others.
Custom is the one powered by Google. Advanced lets you search by key word(s) in a thread's title, or entire message. Also, via the Advanced option you can also search for threads or posts started by specific user.

Plus, if you look a bit to the left of where it says "Search" you can click on the "Community" tab, & it'll let you search for members, as well as other search'ish type functions based on such info. And most of the tabs in said blue bar are worth checking out. Ones both with, & without drop down sub-menus as indicated by the presence of downwards oriented arrows next to them. Such as the "User CP" tab for instance, over near the LHS.

[Training Wheels]

None of which are available if you're using the app.

[fursoc]

My suggestion would be to set up a 'stackoverflow.com' Q&A type site to handle... Q&A's. This would allow all noobs to post questions and get reviewed responses with the duplicate detection built in. It works brilliantly with a bunch other topics that I am interested in... IT, home brew. I don't see why it wouldn't work with sailing and cruising.

[fursoc]

Originally Posted by fursoc

My suggestion would be to set up a 'stackoverflow.com' Q&A type site to handle... Q&A's. This would allow all noobs to post questions and get reviewed responses with the duplicate detection built in. It works brilliantly with a bunch other topics that I am interested in... IT, home brew. I don't see why it wouldn't work with sailing and cruising.

Actually there is one already... http://area51.stackexchange.com/prop...ing-seamanship

I suggest everyone to sign up and direct all noob questions to this site

[Suijin]

Back in the day I used to manage a group of information architects building websites for Fortune 100 companies, many of the transactional and/or overflowing with huge amounts of information and data. The primary concern was almost always "How do we make this information easy to find?" Part of it is search that works, part of it is logical and intuitive organization, and part of it is understanding that different people have different schemas for where they expect to find information based on what they need it for.

First of all, those taking this topic personally, as though the proposed change amounts to labeling and balkanization are, I think, missing the bigger and more important point: how to make this website not only a better and more useful resource for all readers, new and old, but also a better community.

Introducing a topic area oriented towards those who are new to sailing and/or cruising would be hugely helpful to them. Right now, they have to hunt for the information. Search, as everyone has pointed out, is virtually useless, particularly for a new user searching with a very general question. The existing topic areas where a new user might browse threads are active enough that those users are going to be frustrated in finding relevant threads. If all those threads were organized in one section, it would largely solve that problem.

"Newbies" could peruse information in that area. Obviously, if there questions are not answered, they could post a new thread. I suspect that from reading what was available, which they could finally find, that their questions would be sharpened before they were even asked. It would raise the quality of dialogue, be less frustrating for those asking questions and for those asking them. And lastly, by virtue of there being a section devoted to new sailors/cruisers, it would be clear to those people that the site valued/supported their needs and was not just a cliquey group of old salts.

I personally spend a lot of time on the "Portal" page, which aggregates active topics. I then dive down into specific forum areas if I have a question, or am looking for information on specific topics, or am just generally browsing. I suspect that a lot of veteran users do the same. As a result, we'll see those "new user" threads and the participation level will not change.

To reiterate, this is not creating an internment camp for new sailors/cruisers, it's helping them find the information that they are looking for, making them feel supported, and improving information flow.

As for the whole "It's a forum and community not a wiki" argument, that misses the point. It's about information and conversations. Better organization is not going kill conversation, it's going to improve it.

[bletso]

Originally Posted by gamayun

To the OP, if the noobs bother you so much, why not just ignore their posts?

My sentiments exactly. I ignore anything that doesn't interest me and would never tell someone to do a search as the only response. After all the search function does seem to have some short comings, but I still use it on occasion. My idea is that if you have something to contribute, then by all means do so, otherwise just stay quiet. I know, some people like to hear themselves talk, (figuratively speaking).

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

No. You can just not click on the thread.

That works with one problem - Some people (and not just new people) aren't very good at figuring out how to title their threads.

I say just leave things how they are, let the users figure out what to read and what to respond to.

[Schrewsburyduo]

If the cf software can automatically parse previous threads to find other relevant places a poster may look then that would be interesting. Kind of like amazon website. Otherwise let the system be as it is. I don't mind the noobs. Some of the questions are funny and some others will try to help regardless of the stupidity or if their question has been asked and beaten to death over and over before. If you don't have something useful then don't reply. A forum is public discussion that is vibrant and live and actual and current. Previous threads may not apply. For instance there are so many threads in anchors and the anchor wars. An old thread about Roxana may not apply because they used to be good. Then they were bad when they switched to China. Then they are good again. Now there are new anchors like mantus. Same with batteries. Someone should be able to ask any question. If it has been answered then someone will point it out. One idea: If someone has participated in such a precious thread then they can find it and post the link. It's so much nicer than an impersonal search. People to people making connections.... This is what a forum is like. The larger question is why not set up a special thread for expert sailors maybe even another forum so that those really bothered by noobs won't even see them.

[LoudMusic]

I've been down this road a few times with other forums over the past couple decades. I realize I am the new guy here, but I've been the old timer before and was frustrated with "why can't these new people learn to search!?!". In fact, I could probably find a post where I said EXACTLY those words, and was snarky in the process, on at least three other forums.

The thing all forums have in common is people hoping to find a connection to personalized information of the hobby, lifestyle, or career that they want to be a part of. They don't want to read someone else's discussion or do a Google search for any number of legitimate reasons (mostly stagnant out of date data). As they gain their own experience and knowledge they also become a part of that personalized information for the next wave of new members.

The existing members need to accept that this is part of being in a community. And when something happens that drives in new members they have to be prepared for what's coming.

Sticky threads are fine, but don't expect them to reduce the barrage of repetitive question threads. Instead, respond to those new threads with links to the stickies, and other resources you have, without berating the new users, and wait for them to respond with better questions.

Also, I've found it perhaps more important that moderators maintain the tone of threads. If discussions become too heated it will only drive away membership and the community will suffer. The moderators can also change the title of threads to make them more relevant and move them to the correct sub-forum.

It's also possible, I believe, to allow new members to only create threads in certain sub-forums until they have either met an automated threshold of time/posts/comments or a moderator or administrator has given them the ability to start threads in more sub-forums. That would at least capture all the newbie threads into one sub-forum that could be hidden by members who don't want to deal with that.

And lastly, to respond to this thread the same way I see people respond to new member question threads ...

LMGTFY

Second site, first rule, "you have to hold their hands and show them why it’s so important to you".

[LoudMusic]

HA HA HA HA HA!!!! I'm hilarious.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threa...odology.35181/

[JPA Cate]

I do think putting the CF Custom Google Search at the top of the search menu would help a lot. When i first joined CF, Jim had already been a member for a while, and had found that out.

The CF Search is not intuitive to use, and weavis' point, well taken. I had no idea why it didn't work well for me, and now I understand it was user error.

I think a lot of "user error" frustrations comes from using smart phones to try and interface with CF, and I know my tablet screen, I have to scroll it to even be able to see the CF Google Custom Search. If Jim hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't have known it was there, because I'm scared of the computer and don't rush in to explore it. Surely, I'm not the only one.

Ann

[CSY Man]

And let's have a forum for 4-108sover heating, how to cross the Gulf Stream from Florida to the Bahamas, etc.
And a Rocna thread as well.