Freedom 28 survey report in.

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by Byrdman

Probably would not do any good. They are probably in cahoots with each other to get that headache out of the yard.

Someone said the other day in another post that a boat over 20 or 30 years isn't worth much of anything and he would only take one if they paid him to take it off his hands. As a current boat shopper, it really made me open my eyes and close my wallet a little.

Good luck!

Both are fairly accurate I would gander..

So many boats over 20 to 30 years aren't worth anything.. Mostly those not well cared for over the years.. Yet the very few which have been well kept up are worth so much more..

flk k

[alansmith]

Cheech and All "use" Guys, thanks...Cheech...for real? It went that bad?


Okay, i'll call them and exercise my "out". thanks gentlemen.

[Bleemus]

Run. Don't walk from this one.

Freedom core issues are well known. If you can find a dry one for 30k go for it.

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Few more facts that escaped me on the first go around.

1. I am in S.F. Bay area and boat is in Chicago. Plan was to buy a trailer and use this boat as a trailerable solid sea boat for Mexico, San Juans, Bahamas...etc
2. Boat can be seen on yachtworld.com. Search for cat-ketch and you will see her.
3. Accepted offer is 5k plus can store her in Chicago until spring thaw for free.

Here is my conundrum...You can see other Freedom's cat-ketch boats that are cherry and in the low 30 k range. If I buy this boat and it takes all of my free time and 20 k to restore her...wouldn't I just be better off buying the 30k boat and save myself a year or more of life? I ain't getting stronger or younger.

Your piece of mind and time is also valuable. I would get a quote for all the work the surveyors noted and if much over $10 k I would walk away. If you really can find a clean boat for $30 or so you are better off. Maybe I'm just negative but my experience is that major repairs bring surprises and these are never good news so I generally estimate 50-100% over repair quotes for these. In general, boats priced this low are money pits unless a special situation like bankruptcy, divorce or death in the family but in those cases a reasonable broker would price closer the the market average. This one sounds like one of those "too good to be true" deals.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by woodguy

RUN, don't walk from this boat. It's a money pit and will eat up more of your time than you can imagine, time you could be spending sailing.

Amen.

[bailsout]

So glad the 1966 project boat I bought is wood and just as seductive as your last pic.

[ebsail]

I have owned 9 boats so far. Don't buy this boat. Inevitably this will become a very large project and will cost at least 10K if you do it yourself, and 4 to 5 times as much done at a yard. Then there are the things you don't know about.
Buy a boat in the most perfect condition possible. It'll be cheaper in the long run, and you'll still have some repairs to stuff that was not apparent. The most expensive boat you can buy is the free one.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by alansmith

I have an accepted offer in on a Freedom 28 sitting on the hard in Chicago area. I blame Steady Hand for fanning the flames on cheap shoal draft boats. Sleepless in San Francisco. Thanks a lot, Pal!

Surveyor looked at the boat today and there are quite a few problems with her. I want to share some pics with .org and ask for some help in trying to understand how deep is this rabbit hole. Take the blue pill, and spend how much money? Or take the red pill and exercise my "out" in the purchase agreement.

Most of the big problems are involving delamination and water in the core. Surveyor said it is common repair and not that difficult. Please examine the pictures of the port side quarter, rudder, and stern. I spent hours today on YouTube watching guys like Boatworks skin the fiberglass, decore, recore, and reglass. I have rebuilt 3 homes in the last 10 years so can get by...but a house ain't a boat.

Your advice please.

JMHO. If it were not a cored boat I would not see as large a problem. How much of the core is wet and useless. A blister or few on a solid hull I would not worry about as much. One could wick a little but nothing like a cored hull.

[JPA Cate]

Alansmith,

Congratulations! You just dodged a bullet!

In a day and age when even the least expensive new cars are in the $20,000 realm, and they don't have to keep you safe in a seaway, it may be naive to expect to be able to get a good boat for $5K. Or at least, extraordinarily lucky.

We do not often deal with brokers, but even so, ime, have run the gamut from a retired circumnavigator who liked other cruisers, to totally oblivious to our being annoyed after hiring a car to drive 450 mi for a test sail, and when we got there, the engine was in bits on the cabin sole! The boat was also not in the condition she touted to us. Perhaps they don't see it in their best interest to be forthcoming, they need you to go so they can tell the owner they're showing the boat. You are nothing more than a possible check to them, if you buy the boat. That boat read so well -- and was a huge disappointment, and I AM sorry for your disappointment, but still, run like hell. Never forget what Uncivilized said about the syrupy pancakes and the bed-sheet lasagna, that was lovely, and true! And he didn't even get into the issue of the sweaty, itching, sore muscles sort of stuff that also occurrs.

Ann

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Few more facts that escaped me on the first go around.

1. I am in S.F. Bay area and boat is in Chicago. Plan was to buy a trailer and use this boat as a trailerable solid sea boat for Mexico, San Juans, Bahamas...etc
2. Boat can be seen on yachtworld.com. Search for cat-ketch and you will see her.
3. Accepted offer is 5k plus can store her in Chicago until spring thaw for free.

Here is my conundrum...You can see other Freedom's cat-ketch boats that are cherry and in the low 30 k range. If I buy this boat and it takes all of my free time and 20 k to restore her...wouldn't I just be better off buying the 30k boat and save myself a year or more of life? I ain't getting stronger or younger.

do you want to work at rebuilding a boat or do you want to sail a boat? simple question, simple answer.

[UNCIVILIZED]

alansmith, I do like Freedoms, truly. Though there are definitely things about them to look out for in addition to the balsa cores issue. Most specifically, with the masts, in the area of their deck collars, & mast bases/mast steps. Much of which is written about such on here, a bit of it by me. In addition to being found via the Freedom owners site, & on the (retired) designer's site. Eric Sponberg. And not to out him, but he's posted some things here on CF about the boats, including their masts, that are worth reading. In fact, it'd be foolish not to. Plus I'm guessing that some of his older publishings could be found via the Google Cache (or similar). So if the boats are truly of interest to you, some self education wouldn't hurt.

[S28546]

AlanSmith, I've sent you a PM.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, S2.

[KetchinUp]

Alan,
I posted a note to you in a different spot on the Forum, and finally found out how to do that right here at this thread. I bought the sailboat you were looking at last November that you decided to walk away from.. I figured you wouldn't mind knowing what took place afterwards. I took a look at that in the late winter early spring, and thought all the same things you thought, got a hold of the surveyor, took an exhaustive look at the boat top to bottom, and contacted serious real experts who built that particular boat in 1983. I found it in my view to be extremely sound. I was able to buy it at a very good price, thanks to those cosmetic flaws. The only thing serious, was the balsa wood core moisture in the stern quarter. Thanks to that location, everything that had any suspicious nature was easily accessible from the inside by removing the quarter berth mattress and base. Some around our area tell me that surveyor is somewhat of a deal killer. I would enjoy chatting further with you about it.

[gamayun]

I'm tellin' ya....Freedoms are great boats. I'd love to hear first-hand about those "disastrous core issues" that others have dealt with.

Congrats, Ketchin, and welcome to CF!