From multihull to monohull?

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by KrautHolg

What seems to be harder to find is actual experience the other way round.

What we hope to find is people with actual personal experience of switching from long-term multihull sailing to blue water monohull cruising. We would very much like to hear what people like that have to say.

Best,

KrautHolg

There are a few different areas to consider to consider; how it sails, is it sea kindly, how comfortable it is, the type of monohull, etc. I recommend that if possible, you try to sail on some boats you are interested in. You may do this by chartering some or better yet, joining a yacht club. Sailing on these different vessels will give you a feel for the boats.

When converting to a monohull, I would like to offer one area for consideration that most people don't often think of. In a multi hull you have the ability to move to a separate area of the boat to get "uyour space" when you need to get away. Not every monohull offers this feature.

A friend of mine had a custom 47 foot sloop. The galley and nav station (office when not in use for navigating!) were on a different level than the salon, forward V berth, and forward head. There were cabinets between the galley and salon. This two step difference provided a surprisingly large amount of separation.

Likewise, a center cockpit offers a great amount of separation in many cases. I don't recall you mentioning how old your daughter is, but she too may appreciate her own space at times.

I am not sure of your time frame, but if time and resources permit, consider joining a yacht club or charters. This will help you and your family determine if a monohull is for you, and if so, what type of monohull you will like.

You may also wish to consider a ketch as well as a sloop. Each has their advantages. One advantage of a ketch (or a yawl for that matter) is that you have more flexibility with your sail plan and can, in theory, reduce your heal more than a sloop when you run jib and jigger.

Good luck with your hunt for a new yacht!

[KrautHolg]

I am trying to reply to several posts at once. See how that works.

Of the boats I have had, I would definitely prefer the 12-meter Privilege 390 by a long shot. Then the Ed Horstman designed trimaran TriStar 38 (flush deck, very wet) and the Prout Snowgoose 35 was a beginner’s mistake (bulkheads completely delaminated from the hulls). Hate the slamming on a cat as much as anyone.

I live in the very north of Germany in Flensburg and have been between boats since 2013, as I sold the P39 catamaran to buy a rental property. I won’t be getting a pension or anything and will have to rely on myself exclusively. So, buying a more expensive boat would me less income and we are very much undecided whether that is the route we want to take.

Also, the kind of sailing I do is done by lots of monos as well as multis. Although it is very nice to be able to sail fast – and a cat that is not overloaded will almost undoubtedly sail faster than a comparable monohull - that is not our main thing. We want to sail to many different places, both in hot as well as in cold climes. We certainly will live permanently on board and will not be moving back to land once more unless I absolutely have to. Our daughter will go her own way and will only occasionally visit us on board. She always preferred the homey feel of the interior of a monohull – she called it a “dormouse hole” when she was very little – and both my wife and I share that feeling. We do find that our monohull friends have a lot less space on their boats, though. Also, we have rarely seen a cockpit which could compare with the cockpit of our P39. Tried the RV thing – still have it as a matter of fact – but it is not for me. Where’s the damn wind vane steering or autopilot on that thing?!? One of our friends lived for 14 years on his Catana 47, went through the Beagle Channel, from Taiwan via Japan and the Aleut islands to Alaska and many other things. He said the dagger boards were mostly for show. He would not go the same route next time.

Cheers!

Holg

[KrautHolg]

Originally Posted by Quebramar

A CF member made the switch this year. Look up Boot23, I’m sure he can share some thoughts

Tried the search function. The error message is as follows:

The following errors occurred with your search: Invalid User specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

How do I find him?

Cheers!

Holg

[KP44]

My friend just took his cat a couple hours north to a little bay where we often tuck in during a blow. With a wind from the south, he said he was trapped there and he got pretty beat up. Waves wrapping around into the bay that would hardly bother our cruising boat. But he said he was really beat up. He finally cut loose his anchor and beat south and now his cat is hauled out and I wonder if he is going to sail it again. A diver who knows the bay said he will retrieve the lost anchor tomorrow.
This is not a dis of cats. Just a true report of a light cat in a 20 knot sustained blow for a couple days.
It is easy to understand why someone might want a cruising sailboat for higher latitudes, And, as others have said, a 40' cat has over twice the space of a 40' mono along with twice the cost. Comparisons of 40' cat and 55-60' mono are more accurate.

[David B]

Originally Posted by KrautHolg

Hi!

There is a lot of advice out there for people who want to change from a monohull to a multihull. There are all kinds of heated debates and myriads of opinions. What seems to be harder to find is actual experience the other way round.

I have been sailing exclusively on multihulls since 1987 when I first sailed on an old trimaran in Tonga – and got pretty much instantly converted into a multihuller. I bought a Prout Snowgoose 35 the year after, sailed her across the Atlantic and lived on her for 4 ½ years. In 1995 I bought a Horstman TriStar 38 trimaran and sailed her across the Pacific with my wife. Finally, in 2005 I bought a 12 meter Privilege 390 catamaran and sailed her around the world with my wife and daughter. That took us almost eight years, down to New Zealand and around the Cape of Good Hope.

Now we are considering a monohull. All our multihull friends warn me that this would make us very unhappy indeed. The problem is the price tag of a modern cruising catamaran. Also we are thinking to venture to the south tip of South America as well as to the northern tip of North America. What we hope to find is people with actual personal experience of switching from long-term multihull sailing to blue water monohull cruising. We would very much like to hear what people like that have to say.

Best,

KrautHolg

Maybe you'd like to also start a conversation on composting toilets .

For what it is worth, friends of ours went from a mono, to a multi, to a mono. They liked each previous boat, and like their current boat. Their decision to go back to a mono was partly the cost, as with you.

There are plenty of one-eyed people out there who will tell you you're nuts going for a multi, or going for a mono. They both have their advantages, and their disadvantages, but dollar for dollar you get more for your money on a nice mono, than a nice multi - you will always be ahead buying, berthing and running.
Then there is the argument that monos cant go where multis can. Well, the same applies in reverse, so again, it's perspective and bias.

With your last paragraph, you hint at your thoughts on safety in extreme conditions. Yes that is a factor too, and yes, once they are over, multis stay that way (and hence the escape hatches in the hulls), but hopefully that is as rare as a keel falling off a mono.

Good luck and wisdom in your decision making. I am sure many here will be interested to hear of your final choice, and if you would like to communicate with my friends, I can see how to arrange that.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by KrautHolg

Tried the search function. The error message is as follows:

The following errors occurred with your search: Invalid User specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

How do I find him?

Cheers!

Holg

I think you guys are talking about me...

I started with a Lagoon 450 and I now have an Amel 50. I used the Lagoon for 3 seasons in the S. Pacific. I've used the Amel in the Med for one season, so far.

These two boats are not comparable quality or cost wise, and the Med is very different than the S. Pacific. So, keep that in mind.

The Lagoon served us very well. On our last season, we encountered 40+ kts weather off Vanuatu with mountainous waves/swell that humbled me. She felt safe, but she was miserable to sail in heavy seas. The motion was very abrupt and the bridgedeck slapping noise was unbearable. The noise was like constant loud explosions and earthquakes mixed together. I found it maddening. Even in calmer weather, it was very difficult to sleep during overnight crossings due to the bridgedeck explosions.

On the other hand, the catamaran was an amazing living platform at anchor. This is what attracted us, and I think many others, to catamarans. Also, she was easier to sail, as long as you didn't push hard. Cruising catamarans (heavier & undercanvaced) don't react as much as monohulls to sailing mistakes.

The Amel is a heavy and very stable monohull (wide beam carried almost all the way aft). Even at anchor, she doesn't roll as much as older/skinnier monohulls. Her motion is gentle and relaxing. She heels, but it can be controlled. So far, I've only experienced around 30kts wind in the Med, and she glided through with no major banging. It would not have been fun in the catamaran. The Med waves tend to be smaller, steeper and with shorter period.

The Amel doesn't have as much outdoor living space as the Lagoon, but I don't miss it. Also, having one hull makes it easier to find space in a marina. The maintenance differences are obvious.

At the end, it's all about what you value more. If you want the most living space, get a cruising catamaran. If you don't mind less space and want better sailing, get a cruising monohull.

[caradow]

Don't think I will have much to add since you have done a lot of sailing so my experience may not influence you.
I have owned many boats, mostly race boats but did start doing some cruising years ago.
When I sold my last race boat I bought a 50 ft 40,000 pound Ketch and sailed her for 15 years up and down the east coast from Maine to Florida.
I then bought a South African 44 ft. cat that I owned for almost 5 years. I sailed her from Maine to Venezuela and around the Caribbean quite extensively. Also made several trips up and down the coast from the Northeast to the Exumas.
I sold my cat last year and just purchased a Swan 44.
My time on the Cat was fantastic but there was something always missing with the actual sailing. There was never a Zen moment especially when going up wind and you find that groove that is to me is hypnotizing. I remember racing on a Swan 46 to Bermuda once and spent hours on the wheel on a close reach going into Bermuda with 20 knots of breeze and a gentile swell. It was ethereal.
My fondest memories of the Cat was at anchor close to a beautiful white sand beach in protected waters. Sailing the cat in a chop was painful and the slamming shattered my nerves yet I pushed the boat hard. You could negate the slamming a bit by backing off and changing angles to the waves but never liked wallowing around with a good wind. I do realize that maybe a cat with daggerboards and higher bridgedeck clearance would have negated that experience but don't know.
Anyway I am back to monohulls. Also as others have said less expense with dockage, yard bills, 2 engines to service etc etc.
And yes I need a boat that can go upwind. That was also a very frustrating aspect for me but again never had a cat with daggerboards. I find it hilarious regarding some of the posts on this forum about how close to the wind their non-daggerboard cats sail. Also I know "gentlemen don't go to weather" but in my life my next port was many times upwind.
I wish you the best in your pursuit.

[Sevi]

I went from a Lagoon 500 to an Island Packet 38 as I thought the former would be too big for a single handed circumnavigation, which is now half complete. Another factor was the likely possibility of the wind picking up while I slept. The mono would heel more while the cat might flip or blow its headsail. Speed considerations vary with loading and point of sail. I miss the cat 100% of the time at anchor, as it is much smoother and almost always pointed into the wind.

[Bon Temps]

If you like life at 45° for sure go back to a monohull. I have saw the fleet in the Caribbean go from 10% cat in the 2005 to 50% in2019. I think that tells you something. Buy my Seawind 1160 if you want a good boat that pretty cheap but great to sail.

[CassidyNZ]

Interesting, this belief that monos sail at 45 degrees. When my boat gets to that angle of heel there is always considerable panic on board and I know that I have long since missed the point at which I should have reefed.

Rather, when we’re sailing, we try as far as possible to be at worst on an open fetch, at best on a quarter reach and the heel on the boat is mostly around 10 degrees or less. I try to never beat.

That said, when we’re up in the islands, I look at the 50ft cat next to me in the anchorage with a sense of envy at the on-deck space and huge saloon/galley area. But I also visualise the people crawling into their sleeping space in the bridge with sense of mild claustrophobia.

So there are trade-offs. I know that I can’t afford a big cat (to buy or to run) so I don’t lust after one but I can see the attraction. After decades of stereotypical resistance to the cat appeal, I nowadays more often think that if I won a Lotto, I may consider buying one.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by Bon Temps

If you like life at 45° for sure go back to a monohull. I have saw the fleet in the Caribbean go from 10% cat in the 2005 to 50% in2019. I think that tells you something.

It tells the persuasiveness of good marketing. My vessel has never heeled to 45 degrees in 25 years. A 15 degree heel is excessive.
And the Caribbean "fleet" is charter boats; not cruisers or live-a-boards.

Rather than dis on monohulls, I'd rather hear good things about multihulls. I know one that just did a rhumb line from Tahiti to the Sea of Cortez. He says he only motored 40% of the time, so they were sailing upwind. He said they picked up some counter-currents that helped. Of course, he said it was the roughest passage he's ever made. But they did it.

[eaglemac]

Sailed both... Prefer Cats.. but.. Monos are a lot cheaper to buy and keep in a marina. .. the mono negatives.. Slower, they heel and roll underway and at anchor, motion sickness prone are much more comfortable on a multi.. monos need to be sailed and anchored in deeper water than a multi. but.. multis cost a lot to keep in a marina.. sailing and at anchor the multi ride is smoother, they bob up and down instead of heel and roll.. and for cruising the pacific .. you have a much better chance of running away from a fast approaching storm if you know which way to go in a multi capable of 14+ kts than a mono at 6 or 7..

..

[caradow]

Originally Posted by eaglemac

Sailed both... Prefer Cats.. but.. Monos are a lot cheaper to buy and keep in a marina. .. the mono negatives.. Slower, they heel and roll underway and at anchor, motion sickness prone are much more comfortable on a multi.. monos need to be sailed and anchored in deeper water than a multi. but.. multis cost a lot to keep in a marina.. sailing and at anchor the multi ride is smoother, they bob up and down instead of heel and roll.. and for cruising the pacific .. you have a much better chance of running away from a fast approaching storm if you know which way to go in a multi capable of 14+ kts than a mono at 6 or 7..

..

Well you may want to specify what kind of multi vs. mono you are comparing to make your statements more valid. Your difference in costs are valid. Sounds like you may be comparing apples and oranges.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by caradow

That groove that is to me is hypnotizing. I remember racing on a Swan 46 to Bermuda once and spent hours on the wheel on a close reach going into Bermuda with 20 knots of breeze and a gentile swell. It was ethereal.

I would never want to give that up. I've never quite understood the "not going to weather" bit. I far prefer the wind to be 100 degrees or less to the bow. It certainly seems to be that way most of the time.

I remember bashing very close-hauled south-east on Maiden from the Fastnet Rock. The navigator finally gave me the nod to bear off another five degrees once we could comfortably clear the Scillies. It was the most amazing night -- I stayed on watch the whole way home. The skipper asked if I wanted to be relieved, but I said no, this was exactly what all the money and time spent was for...

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

But I also visualise the people crawling into their sleeping space in the bridge with sense of mild claustrophobia.

I don't know of any modern 50' cats where people sleep anywhere but in a spacious cabin with a walk-around king or queen sized bed. Not sure what you meant by this?