Cruisers Forum
 

Go Back   Cruisers & Sailing Forums > The Fleet > General Sailing Forum
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login
Register Vendors FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Log in

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-03-2021, 06:40   #241
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
They should have hire the Dutch immediately. It’s only now that Smit Salvage gets their assets in (the big guns) that progress is made.

It shocks me that anyone listens to politicians about this for updates.
Smit Salvage is one of the best, but this problem was very simple and all it needed was the closest assets in bollard pull and dredging to solve

As anticipated get the stern into deeper water then trim stern down as much as you can to lift bow and slide back slowly after divers confirm that no rocks will penetrate the hull.

Ships on board cargo and ballast management system provided all the data needed.

Politicians were only needed to sell the world on another reason to raise prices[emoji849]
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 06:44   #242
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Vancouver B.C.Canada
Boat: Century Raven 17'
Posts: 436
Images: 1
Send a message via MSN to BugzyCan
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

BugzyCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 08:27   #243
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Other people's boats
Posts: 1,133
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
They should have hire the Dutch immediately. It’s only now that Smit Salvage gets their assets in (the big guns) that progress is made.
Visible success usually has extensive (in this case literally) beneath-the-surface work leading up to it.
requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 10:42   #244
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,690
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

The current position of EVER GIVEN is at Red Sea (coordinates 30.33864 N / 32.39157 E) reported 55 mins ago by AIS. The vessel is en route to the port of Rotterdam, sailing at a speed of 6.2 knots and expected to arrive there on Mar 31, 02:00.

The vessel EVER GIVEN (IMO: 9811000, MMSI 353136000) is a Container Ship built in 2018 (3 years old) and currently sailing under the flag of Panama.

https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels...MMSI-353136000

Wow! What a saga.
LittleWing77
LittleWing77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 11:59   #245
Registered User
 
Tayana42's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 2,804
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Ever Given is freed. As they say nothing is as expensive as a free boat!
Tayana42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 12:04   #246
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

I am pretty sure the ship will anchor in the lake first to get out of the way of other traffic and second for extensive damage assesment and seaworthy tests first.

Then final legal clearance
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 12:15   #247
Registered User
 
Jamme's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Stamford, CT
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 31
Posts: 724
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
I found this one too and it was even more instructive.


Thanks so much. I truly learned something today. Watching a couple of these 10-min. videos should be a mandatory part of any training, as it really gives perspective on the tasks (and complications) at hand for beasts like these, especially when compared to smaller pleasure craft.
__________________
"I always arrive late at the office, but I make up for it by leaving early.” – Charles Lamb
Jamme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 13:34   #248
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,488
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Pilots and Captains are human
Some are cautious, but some unfortunately have egos bigger than their ships.

Those older from Vancouver may remember an incident in 1979 when a Freighter "Japan Erica" collided with the second narrows railway bridge shutting down that railway line which supplied grain for export.

At that time, I worked as part time skipper on Pilot Boats and harbour tugs while attending Marine College.

The Pilot was well known to me.
Young, energetic, always in hurry and basically, a conceited ******* who would tell captains to raise their anchor before even getting on board, making my dropping him off more challenging

That night he should never have made that 2nd narrow transit in zero visibility!

Being on call, the Harbour Master paged me to meet him at our pilot boat dock around 2am

Still zero vis, we slowly got up to 2nd Barrows bridge with Harbour Master and City Engineer and the current now running hard.

Spotlight showed nothing but they needed to get thru to Indian Arm where the ship had re-anchored

So we chanced a quick run thru just as a railway sleepers came crashing down beside us, but made it to the Japan Erica.

I got to listen in on the initial chat with the Pilot.
All the Pilots bluster and bravado was now gone
He retired in disgrace to the delight of those on the waterfront who knew him.

...and that was one of the greatest lessons in my carreeer!







http://concernedengineers.org/second...sk-assessment/
Yes, human personality anamolies find their way into all lines of work.
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 19:11   #249
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 6,705
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Some years ago, I was involved in designing and constructing a water test tank..the main body of the tank was around 80' long...water was pumped thru' " flow straighteners" at one end to a stilling well on the other.. the objective of this was to provide as uniform as possible flow water as possible thru' this tank, which measured around 8' wide x 5' deep. The velocity of the water flow could be varied.

The sides and bottom of the tank were coated in some or other " secret" paint which was akin to teflon so as to reduce surface and/or skin friction.

All over the tank, sides, bottom, etc , were installed various flow gauges and other instruments that could measure velocities, salinities, and other "stuff", etc, to the n th degree. The sides of the tank were fitted with " windows" so you could see inside the tank as well as from the top.

The tank was used by various Universities to model this, that or the other. I was privy to some of their experiments. As much as I thought I knew about marine related water velocities and displacements, etc.....it turns out, that what I knew, amounted to zilch.
Especially, in narrow bodies of water.

The whole goal was instead of trying to pull something thru' the water....ie, a model ship, the ship model would be stationary and the water made to flow around it. This allowed scientist to view what was going on from one location.

These big container ships " displace" an incredible amount of water as they pass by..
The Ever Given has a displacement of 220,00 tons....or about 440,000,000 lbs of water....roughly 7,040,000 cubic feet of water...that water has to go somewhere...

Therein lies the problem....99.9% of the world, have little understanding of the physics involved, in pushing a 220,000 ton displacement vessel thru' a narrow channel....especially at speed...

Throw in a little extra wind, a few other issues...pilot vs captain decisions, etc, etc... ???

All harbors, ports, etc, have " pilots"....these jobs are pretty much handed down from father to son. Outsiders have little chance of breaking into this field. Some ports can be negotiated by a child, but a pilot is always in attendance....ie, Nassau Harbor, Bahamas, the distance from berth to open ocean is probably a half mile, maybe less. It''s the same....day in...day out...
Most modern ships employ bow and stern thrusters....in the past, tugs were used...more $$$$, most ships can berth themselves, but pilots remain a fixture...
Off course, other ports are more complicated..especially those on a river or other tidal flow.
It's a lucrative job, pilots make an impressive salary.

The Suez Canal is such a place. The " transit" fee for a ship like Ever Given is likely substantial.

It will be interesting to hear the cause of this grounding as the story unfolds. Blame will be dished everywhere, as nobody will want to accept responsibility ($$$$) for anything..

If I was the Rescue operation, I'd want my money upfront, before I untied the first dock line as this story will likely not be resolved for years to come.
MicHughV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 20:30   #250
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

That would have been an interesting project McHu.

Would be good for performance curves, but not for measuring G forces at critical wave periods and nights.

Worked at a number of tank test facilities in Vienna , Holland, Germany and UK.

It is always difficulty to scale inertia which is why those facilities are so large with wave generators

This explains why we tank test new hull configurations

https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-...l-testing/amp/
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 20:38   #251
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portugal/ Nederland
Boat: Albin Vega 27 / Ericson E30
Posts: 107
Images: 2
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon.Sails View Post
Crazy, got a source for that?
Happened long before the ship went aground. Maybe you guys do some good reading once in a while www.noonsite.com, instead of Playboy
Albinvega27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 21:38   #252
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote McHu
It will be interesting to hear the cause of this grounding as the story unfolds. Blame will be dished everywhere, as nobody will want to accept responsibility ($$$$) for anything..

If I was the Rescue operation, I'd want my money upfront, before I untied the first dock line as this story will likely not be resolved for years to come. Unquote

There will be no question that the responsibility lies with the operator of Ever Given as it was crew failure to control the ship .

Not sure if it is presently anchored in Bitter Lake for inspection and seaworthy certificate, but the sailing delays will not be financial

I think Evergreen has pretty good credit in the Shipping world and this salvage cost was by comparisons.... cheap!

As far as Canal Income lost, they had their own Pilot onboard advising on speed, so if it turns out that they encouraged a higher than prudent speed, still Captain's responsability , but Suez Canal Authority will waive any delay claims from other ships.

hopefully a raise in fees will pay for new tugs and salvage assets to be kept on station
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 21:59   #253
Registered User
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,891
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
The Ever Given has a displacement of 220,00 tons....or about 440,000,000 lbs of water....roughly 7,040,000 cubic feet of water...that water has to go somewhere...
Gross tonnage is not displacement.
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 22:07   #254
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,227
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Gross tonnage is not displacement.
Quite so... however her summer deadweight is 199,900 tonnes so her loaded displacement will be at least 220,000 tonnes... maybe more....
so 220,000 tonnes would be close enough for government work..
El Pinguino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2021, 23:32   #255
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 6,705
Re: Grounded ‘Mega Ship’ Blocking Suez Canal in Both Directions

I was not allowed to take pictures, video's or otherwise record the goings on at that test tank. Though the tank was constructed outside, it was covered by a roof.

I was barely tolerated by the army of Ph.d's that attended these events. They speak a different language from me. While I was hanging around, their activity generally slowed to a crawl. I could sense that I was not welcome.

I did note, that inside the tank, besides all the gauges, etc, they had also placed various devices to produce turbulent water, different wave and flow patterns, uneven bottom contours, and other such things. I was very intrigued.

The place was also used to study sea turtle net escape devices...though I never saw that in action.

I had a million questions, but alas, these I had to keep to myself.

Interestingly, the tank was also used to correlate computer hydraulic modeling, again, was allowed to watch, but had to shut up....

Had I not been involved in the design and construction of the tank, my presence would likely not been allowed.

I also had an interest in the coating used to line that tank, it certainly had that slippery teflon feeling to the touch...but again....no answers were forthcoming.

During the design of the tank, I did get to know, the folks that installed the pumps, and the so-called "water straighteners", these are devices placed in the tank, that suck the water across the entire x-section of the tank in a even x-sectional area so as to have a uniform flow of water in the tank. The pumps were quite massive, and had variable pumping speeds, as they had to provide for different water velocities in the tank.

On the far side of the tanks, were the stilling wells. Another interesting part of the design. Water gets pumped in there lickity split and has to be quietened down before entering the main tank.

It was an interesting project for sure. I sure would like to see the testing facilities elsewhere.

I'm quite amazed at the detail and accuracy of computer modeling of hydraulics. I had a Ph.D try to explain some of this to me, but most of what he said to me sounded like another language. The best I could do was to nod politely.

Anyway, so Ever Green is on the move again. That was an interesting moment.
MicHughV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
canal


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LiFePO4 technical papers mega thread (ok mayby not so mega) evm1024 Lithium Power Systems 7 04-09-2018 20:13
Crew Available: Pracical degree qualified engineer and professional cook couple, both mid 40s. Both squirty34 Crew Archives 0 17-11-2015 13:34
Ship Grounded on Great Barrier Reef SurferShane Cruising News & Events 39 07-07-2010 09:05
Mega Plait / Mega Braid Line jim_thomsen Anchoring & Mooring 3 16-05-2009 23:17

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.