Grumpy old men and boats.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quote: "You clearly don't understand economics, marketing and basic capitalism. Go to a boat show and see for yourself what the buyers want. I'll give you a hint... it's not the dated designs coming out of the US with single helm stations."



Au contraire, mon ami :-) My opinion is derived from having observed the evolution of the Vancouver Boat Show, and the Vancouver real estate market for three decades. Look for a "dated designs coming out of the US with single helm stations" at the VBS and you will not find one. Look for a 1.500 SqFt spec house in Vancouver and environs and you will not find one. Thus we cannot know whether consumers would like them IF they were available. So those who can afford it settle for an 800 SqFt 3/4 million buck high rise condo just like consumers settle for a wide-arsed, twin helm boat.

On the other hand "dated designs coming out of the US with single helm stations" are immensely popular in the second hand market among those who value utility over display. In the housing market the older 1,500 SqFt jobs are being razed and replaced with 4K SqFt jobs because someone conceived a notion that that constitutes "Highest and Best Use". And so it does - for the spec builders. But in terms of social utility it is obviouly totally dysfunctional. Just so, the marketing of wide- arsed, twin helm boats seems to be a singularly fine example of Gresham's Law in operation :-)

TP

Yeah right, so according to TrentePieds economics, the most successful boat builders are the ones building the boats nobody wants, and the near bankrupt US builders are the ones building the boats that everyone would want....if they weren't interested in only buying a used boat.

Thanks for proving my point.

Let's move on... shall we.

[hpeer]

I suspect most new sailboats are sold to ENTRTAIN on vs to SAIL on.


They are (perceived as) cheap second//vacation homes and ways to demonstrate how rich one is. Even if the captain has dreams of rounding the Horn the Admiral must agree to the loan. So a compromise is struck, at best.

How many on this thread have done an overnight passage in the last 12 months?

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The current market indicates otherwise, and has for the past ten years.

The current market is not driven by sensible choices in all cases. Think fir your self.. not follow media driven trends.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I suspect most new sailboats are sold to ENTRTAIN on vs to SAIL on.


They are (perceived as) cheap second//vacation homes and ways to demonstrate how rich one is. Even if the captain has dreams of rounding the Horn the Admiral must agree to the loan. So a compromise is struck, at best.

How many on this thread have done an overnight passage in the last 12 months?

You need to travel outside the US. All we see here is people out using their boats every weekend and for extended trips sometimes months at a time. Sit in a US marina, and all you'll see is other people just like you sitting in a marina with no place to go. Here in Italy, I watched as 75% of the boats left the marina on Saturday and Sunday.

Typical US mindset... take what you observe first hand, then extrapolate that to become your world view.

[Sandero]

Why do you care about successful boat builders? Marketing gave us the SUV... lovely...

planned obsolescence... making you buy what you don't need...

life style marketing.... YUCK

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "Typical US mindset..."

As I said: "au contraire"! We ARE outside the US ;-0)!

TP

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quote: "Typical US mindset..."

As I said: "au contraire"! We ARE outside the US ;-0)!

TP

And that's why your dollar is now worth only 74 cents!.

[Kajali]

[CaptainGrey]

A man was killed in Buzzards Bay by auto pilot. 15 mile visibility, 10 knot wind, 63' powerboat ran the sailboat right under water and killed the helmsman. Skipper was "entering a waypoint". My foot, he was.

A sharp lookout at all times. Period.

[Kajali]

Maverick 440

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You need to travel outside the US. All we see here is people out using their boats every weekend and for extended trips sometimes months at a time. Sit in a US marina, and all you'll see is other people just like you sitting in a marina with no place to go. Here in Italy, I watched as 75% of the boats left the marina on Saturday and Sunday.

Typical US mindset... take what you observe first hand, then extrapolate that to become your world view.

Well the discussion WAS about the US market and a boat show somewheres in the PNW. So, yes, that is what I was responding to.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by CaptainGrey

A man was killed in Buzzards Bay by auto pilot. 15 mile visibility, 10 knot wind, 63' powerboat ran the sailboat right under water and killed the helmsman. Skipper was "entering a waypoint". My foot, he was.

A sharp lookout at all times. Period.

So what's your point? Just because someone is using an autopilot 99% of the time, doesn't mean they're not keeping watch.

He wasn't "killed in Buzzards Bay by [an] auto pilot," he died because someone wasn't paying attention.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Well the discussion WAS about the US market and a boat show somewheres in the PNW. So, yes, that is what I was responding to.

You might wanna brush up on your geography. The last time I checked, Vancouver was still located in Canada.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You might wanna brush up on your geography. The last time I checked, Vancouver was still located in Canada.

Argue with Wikipedia. Geeesh, pendantic much? Or just demonstrating grump?

The Pacific Northwest (in the United States, commonly abbreviated as PNW), sometimes referred to as Cascadia, is a geographic region in western North America bounded by the Pacific Ocean to the west and (loosely) by the Rocky Mountains on the east. Though no agreed boundary exists, a common conception includes the U.S. states of Oregon and Washington and the Canadian province of British Columbia. Broader conceptions reach north into Alaska and Yukon, south into far northern California and east to the Continental Divide, thus including Idaho, Western Montana, and western Wyoming. Narrower conceptions may be limited to the northwestern US or to the coastal areas west of the Cascade and Coast mountains. The variety of definitions can be attributed to partially overlapping commonalities of the region's history, geography, society, and other factors.

[hpeer]

So, speaking of grump, I'll tell you one thing that makes me grumpy. Microsoft!!!!! First of all that sounds like a personal information and TMI!

But why do they have to keep changing the bloody interface! I have an XP machine that works fine but new software isn't compatiable. So I'm running navigatrix on that machine. Now I've got a new Win 10 laptop and I'm trying to make my various devices using com ports work. Damn hard just following help menu because they change stuff like MY COMPUTER is now THIS PC. Com ports don't show up in Device Manager anymore because the are "legacy devices", they can be enabled but you gotta dig to do it.

I don't mind learning, I enjoy it. But this isn't learning in any productive sense. It's just adapting to mindlessly changing the format for no good PRACTICAL reason. I know many here are far more astute on the PC front than I and these things may not be a challenge. But it is a challange for some of us. It's not that I'm not smart enough, i do my own CAD work. But this is something I don't want to do. I retired from the land world to get away from this ceaseless noise and here it is forcing itself in on me.