Gunboat 66 – the ultimate fast cruiser?

[Mogga]

Donald Street was my hero, in his engineless Yawl Iolaire he had a generator
turned by a towed propeller which charged a battery to run the fridge to keep
the beer cold. It was engineless because it seized one day and he decided it
was more use as a sinker for a mooring than to propel him along.
To see him beat off an anchorage because it had become untenable in an onshore force7
with no engine is why I like mono hulls.He sailed 100,000 miles without an engine.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Mogga

Donald Street was my hero, in his engineless Yawl Iolaire he had a generator
turned by a towed propeller which charged a battery to run the fridge to keep
the beer cold. It was engineless because it seized one day and he decided it
was more use as a sinker for a mooring than to propel him along.
To see him beat off an anchorage because it had become untenable in an onshore force7
with no engine is why I like mono hulls.He sailed 100,000 miles without an engine.

I knew in the 80's a Scott that was circumnavigating the world in a very small yacht without engine. A very nice guy that help me to secure my old 80 year's old traditional sailboat on a big storm in Peniche. Quite a mad story that evolved some crazy swimming from my part.

I followed later is route through articles he published on yachting monthly, that was helping him with some money in exchange. Quite a sailor.

But I don't believe that could not be done safely on a cat even if for safety regarding stability it would probably be safely done in a bigger boat.

Actually I seem to remember to see in Dusseldorf, many years ago, a small Corsair 27, 30ft? that had done the same with the help of just a small outboard engine, even if a Corsair is a trimaran with a better stability than a cat of the same size.

And of course we have the guy that circumnavigated the globe on a beach cat even if he had shipwrecked at the middle but I believe that one does not count. He is not only mad as he is a hell of a professional sailor and that circumnavigation was quite a stunt.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes I agree that is the best size for a long range cruising cat and it is not by accident that most designs really suited for that have around that size. Some are slightly smaller but that is just not for a convenience point of view but by a question of cost.

50ft still allows a manageable boat for two and provides the needed stability to make it a very safe boat, provided it is not a true performance cruiser (several of those on that range size have capsized).

We can say that a cat with bigger sails and a lesser ratio between stability and sail can always be sailed with less sail area but those capsizes with very experienced sailors at the wheel shows that if someone has that possibility more sail will be used than on a less performance boat.

It should also be pointed out that while on a performance monohull the stability can be increased (and is increased) by a higher percentage of ballast and deeper keels, that can provide lighter but more stable boats, on a multihull with 50ft, beam is not different between a performance cruising one and a heavier cruising one.

That means that on a cat performance cruiser the stability is always smaller than on a similar sized heavier boat while proportionally more sail area is available on the lighter less stable boat. Not a good combination for safety specially in what regards cruising.

This leads me to say that a boat like the Gunboat 66 would have not the ideal characteristics for an ideal long range cruising boats neither any true performance cruising cat. Of course for ideal I am referring to what most people would see as characteristics of a long range cruising boat should have regarding space, seaworthiness, stability and sailing characteristics. Different sailors would have different options.

Utter garbage. You really don't understand the difference between cruising and racing do you?

I'll try to make it very simple, just for you. Based on what REAL racers and REAL cruisers do in the same boat, in the same situation.

In a Brisbane-Gladstone race, sailing up the east coast of Fraser Island in ~30 knot SE, gusting 35.

A Shawn Arber 40" cat was sailing under full main and spinnaker. Speeds around 15-20 knots, hitting 25+ at times surfing. Occasionally running into the back of waves, burying the bows. After a near pitchpole, the skipper relented, and tucked in one reef in the main.

BTW this happened at night.

They finished second - someone else pushed even harder.

Same situation, but cruising.

NO main.

NO spinnaker.

1/2 headsail.

Speeds around 8-10 knots, occasional surf into the teens.

This would be in daylight. At night, it would be 1/3 headsail, 6-8 knots boatspeed. Near zero chance of capsize.

You photo's and videos of RACING multihulls are completely irrelevant to CRUISING. But you'll never get that into your head.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Utter garbage. You really don't understand the difference between cruising and racing do you?

I'll try to make it very simple, just for you. Based on what REAL racers and REAL cruisers do in the same boat, in the same situation.

In a Brisbane-Gladstone race, sailing up the east coast of Fraser Island in ~30 knot SE, gusting 35.

A Shawn Arber 40" cat was sailing under full main and spinnaker. Speeds around 15-20 knots, hitting 25+ at times surfing. Occasionally running into the back of waves, burying the bows. After a near pitchpole, the skipper relented, and tucked in one reef in the main.

BTW this happened at night.

They finished second - someone else pushed even harder.

Same situation, but cruising.

NO main.

NO spinnaker.

1/2 headsail.

Speeds around 8-10 knots, occasional surf into the teens.

This would be in daylight. At night, it would be 1/3 headsail, 6-8 knots boatspeed. Near zero chance of capsize.

You photo's and videos of RACING multihulls are completely irrelevant to CRUISING. But you'll never get that into your head.

thats how we do it too, although slow boat. I would love to have fast 50 ft otr 66 feet however, my observation is that 50 feet or more is just too expensive to maintain and people usually buy it, use for full time sail, and then sell. 40 feet is much easier to keep also when not sailing full time.

Seen cruising cat having full sail on in 50 knots and sailing windward. Obviously practising. It is doable, but I practice like this for around 5 min. Then reef as per guidelines or more and turn on autopilot.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I think that this is a pretty perceptive post. Gunboat aimed at a rather rich clientele (who else could afford one?), and as a rule, such folk are not interested in a spartan cruising vessel. So, poor old Gunboat gets stuck between the high performance image and the realities of selling to folks who could stand the price. Fold in a less than successful relationship with a Chinese fabricator, and some highly publicized failures, and BOOM, a failed enterprise.

Too bad, because it is always interesting to be a spectator when very expensive but very innovative boats are sailing around with all the bells and whistles hanging out in the breeze.

Jim

Thanks Jim. I don't think Gunboats were ever aimed at full-time liveaboard cruisers, like us. We don't need aircon. (Although you might need a heater soon)
For a start, we anchor out, so there's usually good breeze keeping us cool. And when it starts getting too warm we migrate.

It's much easier and cheaper to build a good performing boat, if you don't load it up with "luxury" crap. For example, Bob Oram drew a 62 foot cat that was lighter than a GB62, but did not require one gramme of carbon fibre to be that light. And could be built for a fraction of the cost.

[cruisersfarm]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Getting back to the topic - the ultimate fast cruiser, if not the Gunboat 66, then what?


For mine a 66 foot cat is too big for a couple. OK if it's a couple with grown up kids.


I think around a 50 foot cat would be better managed by a cruising couple.


I also think Gunboats tend to be too loaded up with "luxury" stuff, AC systems, big diesel gensets etc. They're too complicated for my taste. And too heavy, because of this. And because they're too heavy they need too big a rig and sailplan to get the performance.

I very much agree.

They are made from carbon, but have so much stuff in them, they weigh as much or more than standard glass.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Utter garbage. You really don't understand the difference between cruising and racing do you?

I'll try to make it very simple, just for you. Based on what REAL racers and REAL cruisers do in the same boat, in the same situation.

In a Brisbane-Gladstone race, sailing up the east coast of Fraser Island in ~30 knot SE, gusting 35.

A Shawn Arber 40" cat was sailing under full main and spinnaker. Speeds around 15-20 knots, hitting 25+ at times surfing. Occasionally running into the back of waves, burying the bows. After a near pitchpole, the skipper relented, and tucked in one reef in the main.

BTW this happened at night.

They finished second - someone else pushed even harder.

Same situation, but cruising.

NO main.

NO spinnaker.

1/2 headsail.

Speeds around 8-10 knots, occasional surf into the teens.

This would be in daylight. At night, it would be 1/3 headsail, 6-8 knots boatspeed. Near zero chance of capsize.

You photo's and videos of RACING multihulls are completely irrelevant to CRUISING. But you'll never get that into your head.

You are always very nice Yes garbage if you don't care about facts and facts, as usual, talk by themselves:

1- there are many more heavier 49/55 cruising cats than truly light performance cruising cats of that size.

2- Even if they are much less in number I know of several capsizes of performance cruising cats with that size (none was racing) and I don't know of any capsize of an heavier cruising cat with that size, being them in much bigger number.

Unless you want to enlighten my lack of information regarding capsizes of heavier cruising cats of that size, the logical conclusion is that heavier cruising cats are safer than lighter performance cruising cats and therefore more suitable for long range relaxed cruising.

Yes, logic is an useful tool

[neilpride]

Wait a moment, im confused, which hull is harder to lift it up? a 2 tons hull or a 1 ton hull? for the same beam.....

[beiland]

...from a poster on Sailing Anarchy

If you did not know the difference between a GB 66 and a GB 60, with all due respect you should not be bashing GB in this thread. I've lived and sailed on a GB66 for the last 6 years at both Antigua Race Week and the St. Maarten Heineken. They are extremely well built, fast, and comfortable boats to sail. We sail with no pro sailors on an essentially stock boat since she was built and we get her around the race course quite well and we typically finish on the podium. I'd love to cruise a 66 anywhere.

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by beiland

...from a poster on Sailing Anarchy

Brian, quoting unsubstantiated drivel from sailing anarchy shows desperation.

The GB66 is so easy to race it only requires a smallish unpaid 12 person crew .

The GB66 is so fast it gets flogged by the smaller 62's.

Its real difficult to get on the podium with, what?? 2 GB66 s' turning up.

Give us a break.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Just curious, can anyone ballpark the price of the Gunboat?

Nobody answered you? it seems you have made an inconvenient question.

Basically if you need to ask you don't have money to buy. Gunboat avoided to make publicity on the prices and even on the magazine boat reviews they don't post the price, they say only that it is expensive.

A 2 hand 66 ft, 6years old cost about 4 millions. I guess a new 66, fully equipped would cost about 7 millions.

The new boats, made in china and with a lower quality were an attempt to lower the prices and reach other clientele, that not the one of the maxi yachts. A made in china Gunboat like the 55 would cost something like 3 millions and they had lots of quality problems, not to mention the broken mast on the 2th? boat.

The Problem with Gunboat was not only the price but the taste of the market he was pointing to. That market likes beauty and luxury and for less than what it costs a Gunboat 66 they could have a 80ft luxury yacht and the choice of almost all went that day. Not discussing if it is better or worst, just what happened. That is why they were trying to lower boat prices, making a slightly different boat and reach other clienteles.

The 80ft monohulls I am talking about that cost less are boats like the A80:

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Polux

Nobody answered you? it seems you have made an inconvenient question.

Basically if you need to ask you don't have money to buy. Gunboat avoided to make publicity on the prices and even on the magazine boat reviews they don't post the price, they say only that it is expensive.

A 2 hand 66 ft, 6years old cost about 4 millions. I guess a new 66, fully equipped would cost about 7 millions.

The new boats, made in china and with a lower quality were an attempt to lower the prices and reach other clientele, that not the one of the maxi yachts. A made in china Gunboat like the 55 would cost something like 3 millions and they had lots of quality problems, not to mention the broken mast on the 2th? boat.

The Problem with Gunboat was not only the price but the taste of the market he was pointing to. That market likes beauty and luxury and for less than what it costs a Gunboat 66 they could have a 80ft luxury yacht and the choice of almost all went that day. Not discussing if it is better or worst, just what happened. That is why they were trying to lower boat prices, making a slightly different boat and reach other clienteles.

The 80ft monohulls I am talking about that cost less are boats like the A80:

Wow, nice boat! I have less problem with the 1 percenters making so much money if they turn around & spend it all, especially on boats. However, I much prefer that they spend it on beautiful classic wooden yachts.
1911 William Fife and Son, Fairlie 19 Metre Class 'Mariquita' Sail Boat
1930 Camper & Nicholsons Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
1938 Alden Motor Sailer Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Wow, nice boat! I have less problem with the 1 percenters making so much money if they turn around & spend it all, especially on boats. However, I much prefer that they spend it on beautiful classic wooden yachts.
1911 William Fife and Son, Fairlie 19 Metre Class 'Mariquita' Sail Boat
1930 Camper & Nicholsons Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
1938 Alden Motor Sailer Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

That is funny, I said almost exactly that on the last post on my blog about a movie with beautiful big yachts

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Polux

That is funny, I said almost exactly that on the last post on my blog about a movie with beautiful big yachts

Great minds think alike! And then there's us.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Great minds think alike! And then there's us.

you dont happen to be brokers selling these large old monos ?

The issue with that pretty looking 80 ft yacht is SHADE. In era of f*up environment and ozone layer thinning, skin cancer become more deadly.

And in my books any boat with no appropriate shade when sailing is no go even if it does 11 kn in 3 kn of wind.