Hank On or Furling Head Sails

[Bash]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

Generally, your pointing ability will be improved immensely with hank on sails.

Immensely? I disagree. Sails with the luff in foils generally outperform sails on hanks when hard on the wind. And an RF system provides a foil.

You'll never see a high-end racer using hanks. Never. It's always a foil system, whether it's a standard foil or a furling foil.

[Play Actor]

We switched from furling to hanked on sails about 10 years ago, and would not consider going back. Over the years previous to our switch, we had three different popular furling systems. None was trouble free. We've never had a failure when depending on gravity to bring down the headsails on our 35 foot cutter, although we have downhauls rigged, just in case. The downhauls mean no one has to go to the foredeck to drop a headsail -- you just cast off the halyard and use the downhaul to bring the sail down on the foredeck. We are sailing mostly offshore, and one less thing to fail is one less thing to worry about and maintain.

There are other benefits to hank on sails vs. furling, as well, in terms of sail shape and pointing ability, but those are small, and are secondary to the reliability question on a cruising boat. We are clearly Luddites, but most folks these days haven't sailed much without roller furling sails. We thought they were the only way to go until we decided to try it the old fashioned way.

[capnorv]

I always thought furlers were for lazy people. Then last fall we got our present boat and it came with a furling headsail. I notice I'm a lot quicker to set sail because of the ease of doing so in our daysailing environment. Sail performance is not perfect, but then the boat is far from a performance boat! I think I'm sold for our type of use, but I'm still not ready to furl a main...baby steps.

[Hud3]

Another vote for furling sails--all three of ours were on furlers, and I could stay in the cockpit, warm and dry, and handle any sail changes necessary.

However, I highly recommend you have luff pads (or ropes) sewn into your foresail. Then you can roll it in and keep it flat. Makes a huge difference in heavy wind conditions.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Rich, just to confuse you we carry both. However, for cruising furling sails will make life much easier rather than constantly having to go to the bows to change headsails.

Our hank on sails are a storm sail which needs to be completely independant of the furling system and a No 2 hank on incase the genoa blows out. Both hank on sails use a separate dyneema forestay.

Peter

You don't say (haven't read the whole thread yet) what size boat you are discussing, but we have a 41 foot steel cutter, and have a yankee on a Profurl, with the option to run a bigger genoa for light air, plus a hank-on staysail with plans to have a storm staysail cut for that stay. Throw in a cruising chute and a standard, non-furling main, and that's our setup. I am considering putting in a trysail track and pole-hoisting gear to run twins up front.

I acknowledge the convenience of furling, but I prefer hank-on. I think the practical limit of actually handing and stowing hank-on sails for a double-handed boat is about 35-36 feet, which is why I'm keeping the furling foresail.

[S/V Alchemy]

Just a comment that I have a smaller 33 footer that is exclusively hank-on because of the performance bonus and because I would rather sail alone with a properly cut No. 3 approaching 20 knots than with a half-furled genoa.

I typically set up everything before I solo sail and then just release a couple of bungees and haul the halyard with the tiller pilot pushing me into the wind. The time needed is minimal. With practice you can dump the foresail on deck from the cockpit in a semi-flaked state.

So the way you like to sail, your crew requirements, your space below, and the time you expect to be sailing are factors.

I would not, for safety reasons, have a staysail furler. I have seen dozens of stuck furlers in my day, but have only lost a single hank in a blow. As I've seen my 17 tonne boat do hull speed in 32 knots with just the staysail, I want that to be as uncomplicated and durable as possible.

[Bash]

It should be pointed out that the performance penalty on a roller furler is not an absolute. If you're going to ask a #1 genoa to do the work of a #3 by furling it partially, then it will indeed perform poorly. But if you swap the sails as needed, there is virtually no performance penalty other than for a bit of added windage aloft for the swivel. Using a two-track foil on my current roller furler, I am able to change sails just as quickly with that system as I was with former race boats that had conventional two-track foils.

The problem with roller furlers is that people have bought into the misconception that a genoa can be made to perform well in all conditions.

[Gracies]

My next question is the correct fittings for the foot of the roller stay, i installed the furler on the stay only recently and the rigging company who were involved had the furling gear around 1foot up off the bow sprit, however looking at other yachts i see that the furling gear is almost at deck level, i´m assuming the riggers raised the gear on mine due to the cut of the genoa?!

[S/V Alchemy]

Most likely, yes. Until you see the difference, it's hard to understand how quickly the foot of a yankee-cut jib goes off the deck, and how a genoa does not.

[capnorv]

Originally Posted by Bash

It should be pointed out that the performance penalty on a roller furler is not an absolute. If you're going to ask a #1 genoa to do the work of a #3 by furling it partially, then it will indeed perform poorly. But if you swap the sails as needed, there is virtually no performance penalty other than for a bit of added windage aloft for the swivel. Using a two-track foil on my current roller furler, I am able to change sails just as quickly with that system as I was with former race

The problem with roller furlers is that people have bought into the misconception that a genoa can be made to perform well in all conditions.

I keep hearing insinuations that your 12 meter sloop is a Hunter? It doesn't say so in your profile, and surely all your vast opinions were not formed on such a vessel. Just curious.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Bash

The problem with roller furlers is that people have bought into the misconception that a genoa can be made to perform well in all conditions.

Not all people.

Plenty of us know the performance limitations but just don't care.

[Bloodhound]

Not meaning to be pedantic here, but if you are using a roller furler to reef a headsail, isn't it referred to as "roller reefing" since you are rolling up only part of the sail? I have both the Yankee jib and the Stays'l hanked on but use a roller to furl them both.

[redcobra]

Originally Posted by Red Horse

Hi folks,
I currently have a furling system on my boat. I am changing from a ketch to a cutter. The choice of course is furling or hank on head sails for cruising.
Any advice why you like or dislike either?
thanks
Rich

I had hank on sails on my first 4 boats. I have a furler on this one. I will never go back.

I installed a Schaeffer Furler with a Doyle 155% Genoa. I had the 130 and working jib that came with the boat converted to furling. In the Spring and Fall I keep the 130 on the furler, and in the summer the 155. I have not needed the working jib (yet). I also have a "GaleSail" that fits over the furled sail.

It's not as easy to change sails as with the hanks, but if you plan ahead it's no big deal. Make sure the luff groove is smooth and polished and the sail slides right out and down the forehatch. You do need two people to hoist a new sail as one makes sure the luff tape feeds into the groove properly as the other cranks the winch (all halyards run to the cockpit).

I am not a racer, but for cruising, both the 155 and the 130 reef OK for about the first 25%. When it pipes up alot quickly, I often roll up the Genny about 25%, drop the main, and sail on reefed genny and mizzen.

[Hud3]

You do need two people to hoist a new sail as one makes sure the luff tape feeds into the groove properly as the other cranks the winch

Harken supplied a "Y" shaped appliance on a cord that feeds the luff into the slot, so you can raise the sail single handed.

[capttman]

I hank on I am a bit traditional.. But today is the day to change does anyone have a big furler for sale..:-) I'm going to the dark side after many many many moons..lol