Has anyone been following Greta and Boris Herrmmann?

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by StuM

For one thing, factor in the addition costs of that sea voyage. The airfare doesn't provide you with accommodation and meals for days.

How does the sea ticket compare to an airfare plus say a week of hotel accommodation and meals.

Where can I get a sea ticket to compare?

I don't think I need a hotel, just a bag of rice and a small stove. People didn't have hotels in the 1800's on ships. People travel on the congo river today this way. Many of them cannot afford to pay a fare but are still allowed to go. In india/mexico and other places it's common to ride on top of trains for free. The richer passengers who do have the best accommodations end up paying the fares, and everyone can travel.

A week at sea or land costs the same for food. I don't have a problem with the time because you can bring your computer and work along the way. You don't have weight limits other than what you can carry/cart onto the ship.

It was a mistake the postal service got rid of surface mail. It is not to serve the people but to justify charging 4 times more for postage and not caring about emissions.

Maybe it's time to have legislation to make surface travel by ships in all cases significantly cheaper than air travel. Some ideas:

1) Subsidizing passenger ships
2) Allowing legal travel on surface ships (a few small cabins required on ships above a certain size are required to transport passengers)
2) not charging import tax on items shipped by sail (no engine allowed in ship)
3) end all "Government subsidies to airlines "
4) Convert most of our current airports into state parts
5) Limit the number of jet aircraft allowed to be produced.
6) Use a higher tax for emissions released at altitude.
7) Using much slower flying aircraft. Turboprop uses less than half the fuel at 60% of the same speed.
8) Encourage aircraft that glide better, use thermals, and even dynamic soaring as well as following weather patterns at much slower speeds (still faster than a ship) It's possible for aircraft to not consume fuel at all and travel very far depending on weather conditions if the passage is viable at a given time
9) Bring back airships like zepplins. These ships are much faster than surface ships and use a tiny fraction of the fuel of aircraft.


Some notes on airships:

Going slower, they can be blown by the wind using no fuel at all if traveling on prevailing weather routes.

Unlike aircraft there is a large surface area on top for solar panels.

Use no power to remain aloft, are far more efficient on many levels.

Much less risk of hydrogen explosions because we no longer need to use flammable gas bladders like in the past.

Fly at a lower altitude making the trip much more enjoyable with fresh air.

If the ship does go down, it will fall slowly, even in the worst airship disasters most of the passengers survived.

With modern weather forecasting it's more viable than ever to manage this type of ship and their routes.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Chotu

https://tracker.borisherrmannracing.com/

Been watching them live since they left. She's like 15 and just crossed the Atlantic with them. Not sure she's even been on a boat. Quite a boat to start on! They were ripping along at 27 knots the other day. Monohulls can be fast.

Let's leave politics out of this thread and just enjoy the sailing aspect. It's one hell of a boat.

https://instagram.com/gretathunberg?...=1my4kskahonxb

entire boat made from crude oil

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Not sure why this has even been in the news. A young girl on a fully crewed boat goes sailing. Don't cruisers with families have young children onboard most of the time and cross oceans.

EDIT: I know I shouldn't post if I don't have anything positive to say, but I really just don't get this one.

She sailed the Atlantic as passenger on a high tech sailboat made entirely of crude oil to come to the USA to protest USA using crude oil. How very fitting .Carbon fiber hull, epoxy hull, plastic rigging, plastic sails.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Exile

Perhaps not as many barrels of oil as it took to produce the $4M race boat that Greta sailed across the Atlantic on to selflessly enlighten us with her message. I just read that the crew were purchasing "offsets" to compensate for their jetting back to Europe. Have you purchased yours?

smile

[TrentePieds]

To come back to a question that's really more relevant to all of us sounding off 'ere:

What will be done with this utterly useless boat when all the "Good on ya!"s and the "Up your's!" die down? Does anyone here fancy 'er for a cruiser? Thot not!

I'm faced with precisely that problem, as are you all, although the problem presents with a bit more of a human face: What am I to do with poor old TP once my sailing days are over? I doubt that Greta has connected the dots yet, but the conspicuous consumption that is the root cause of the western world being replete with such toys as the boats we sail is really at the root of EVERY social/economic/political/geopolitical problem.

So what WILL we all do with our boats when they, and we, come to the end of our usefulness? We can't just keep selling them on to the next sucker in line. We already see supply grossly exceeding supply. Someone, not many posts ago, was pitching for a centrally controlled economy. As I said WAY above: Greta and 'er Mum can come sailing with me any day. I'd LOVE to hear what they have to say about those sorts of problems. I'll even let them tell me in Swedish if they like :-)

TrentePieds

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

To come back to a question that's really more relevant to all of us sounding off 'ere:
What will be done with this utterly useless boat when all the "Good on ya!"s and the "Up your's!" die down? Does anyone here fancy 'er for a cruiser? Thot not! ...

Her owners bought her to race, and that's what they intend to do.

"Team Malizia was founded in 2016 by Pierre Casiraghi, Vice-President of the Yacht Club de Monaco. Pierre Casiraghi and Boris Herrmann are racing teammates, good friends and ocean explorers. They have worked together to create Team Malizia and sail races across the globe. With Malizia II, an IMOCA 60’ the team have their sights set on 2019 and beyond to the 2020 Vendée Globe."
➥ https://www.borisherrmannracing.com/team-malizia/

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by GordMay

In August 2018, Greta Thunberg started a school strike for the climate, outside the Swedish Parliament, that has since spread all over the world, and now involves over 100,000 schoolchildren. The movement is now called Fridays For Future.
Thunberg has spoken at climate rallies in Stockholm, Helsinki, Brussels and London. In December she attended the United Nations COP24 in Katowice, Poland, where she addressed the Secretary-General and made a plenary speech, that went viral, and was shared many million times around the globe. In January 2019 she was invited to the World Economic Forum in Davos where her speeches again made a worldwide impact.
We need many more voices from Greta Thunberg’s generation, prepared to boldly call out the abysmal and ongoing failure of our generations. Applying Occam’s razor to our delusional substitutes for action, this fifteen year old (now sixteen) revealed just how pathetic our efforts have been. In so doing, Greta opened up space for a younger generation to command a new and constructive dialogue.

I don’t know where some of us get our information about Greta’s position, but it appears certain it’s not from her actual speeches. Her message is remarkably clear and simple, and consistent across the many venues she’s addressed.

I suggest we could all benefit from reading some (or even 1) of Greta Thunberg’s (short) speeches:
☞ https://www.fridaysforfuture.org/gre...ch_july23_2019

As far as her “seeing carbon dioxide” goes, I’ll let Greta explain the metaphor:
☞ https://www.facebook.com/gretathunbe...3189474715541/

FWIW:
Thunberg’s parents are Svante Thunberg, an actor, and Malena Ernman, a very well-known opera singer.
Both Greta and her younger sister, Beata, have been diagnosed with autism, A.D.H.D., Aspergers syndrome, OCD and other conditions.

Thanks for that Gord. I think many of us here are really missing it by distracting ourselves with the boats, the planes, how much carbon is used and insinuating how hypocritical the whole venture is. Far more to the point is the frustration and fear that millions of kids feel about their future right now all over the world, and they see adults like us dismissing their concerns and arguing about the validity of the threats through our own lenses of adult self-interests. To a child, a future is all they got and if it looks good they feel secure, but if it looks bad, they have no voice in the discussion until one of their own bravely stakes out a position and goes on strike or goes on a sailing trip. I'm confident the kids don't care if Greta was "used" as long as she represents them in this fight. The kids expect us to do something to fix the problems they cannot. They look at our trajectory and rightfully ask, "how did we get in this mess?"
And when you have your own kids, and you worry about the fate of the world they have been born into, then you listen more and you listen better.
My appeal would be then to not let our cynicism overcome our ability to listen with respect and respond with actions to improve the planet for them.
Seriously, how many of us can really turn to a child today and say, "don't worry, everything is fine?"
The kids aren't that dumb.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Seriously, how many of us can really turn to a child today and say, "don't worry, everything is fine?"

I don't think it'd be a problem for anyone who was a kid 100 years ago when there was a good chance of being stricken with polio, or someone who survived growing up during the Great Depression, or maybe someone who was a teenager only a couple of years older than Greta who had much more basic worries than whether the climate was going to change.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Her owners bought her to race, and that's what they intend to do.

"Team Malizia was founded in 2016 by Pierre Casiraghi, Vice-President of the Yacht Club de Monaco. Pierre Casiraghi and Boris Herrmann are racing teammates, good friends and ocean explorers. They have worked together to create Team Malizia and sail races across the globe. With Malizia II, an IMOCA 60’ the team have their sights set on 2019 and beyond to the 2020 Vendée Globe."
➥ https://www.borisherrmannracing.com/team-malizia/

And unlike a cruising boat or just about any other type of pleasure craft, how long after the 2020 Vendée Globe will it take for a single-purpose, high-tech race boat like this to wind up safely "sequestered" in a landfill, to be replaced with yet another cutting edge race boat made out of oil?

[Don C L]

Many, many kids are still brave and heroic and just as willing to sign up for the cause of saving the world. It's not about now compared to yesterday, it is about now compared to tomorrow, as it was in December of '41. Perhaps the nature of the threat is perceived differently and I guess the point you are making is that the kids are perceiving it incorrectly. If so, I'd disagree with that.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Many, many kids are still brave and heroic and just as willing to sign up for the cause of saving the world. It's not about now compared to then, it is about now compared to tomorrow, as it was in December of '41. Perhaps the nature of the threat is perceived differently and I guess the point you are making is that the kids are perceiving it incorrectly.

It's an image from June of 1944 (Normandy invasion).

It's not a question of what kids are perceiving. Instead, it's what they're being inundated with, namely the same alarmist, catastrophic, politically-inspired mantra that the rest of us are. Except kids don't have the wherewithal to put it into any sort of perspective. Not that CC isn't an important issue, not that we shouldn't make a serious effort to reduce consumption of fossil fuels, not that we haven't increased atmospheric CO2 and that this is having an impact, but that there's only one possible outcome if we don't take drastic measures to cut emissions -- a climate catastrophe. Not only are we not teaching kids the many dimensions of the issue and the consequences of various actions, but we're convincing them that it's an all-or-nothing problem akin to what previous generations of children were facing when confronted with their own survival.

I actually feel sorry for this girl being in the limelight like this on such a divisive and polarizing issue. Especially when I saw from the Facebook post Gord cited where she spoke of all the "haters." I also found it disappointing from her speeches that she's been indoctrinated with the same sort of superficial, two-dimensional thinking that produces the us vs. them "denier" lingo. Greta appears to have found a home in the more hard-core "climate crisis" camp. That's all fine, and she certainly has plenty of cohorts. But just like so many of the adults feeding her this alarmist point of view, she's probably unaware or chooses to ignore that it goes well beyond the position of many mainstream climate scientists, to say nothing of the many skeptics. Until she becomes aware of the many facets of the science itself and learns how to address them, she'll probably not have much impact in persuading anyone other than her fellow believers.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Thanks for that Gord. I think many of us here are really missing it by distracting ourselves with the boats, the planes, how much carbon is used and insinuating how hypocritical the whole venture is. Far more to the point is the frustration and fear that millions of kids feel about their future right now all over the world, and they see adults like us dismissing their concerns and arguing about the validity of the threats through our own lenses of adult self-interests. To a child, a future is all they got and if it looks good they feel secure, but if it looks bad, they have no voice in the discussion until one of their own bravely stakes out a position and goes on strike or goes on a sailing trip. I'm confident the kids don't care if Greta was "used" as long as she represents them in this fight. The kids expect us to do something to fix the problems they cannot. They look at our trajectory and rightfully ask, "how did we get in this mess?"
And when you have your own kids, and you worry about the fate of the world they have been born into, then you listen more and you listen better.
My appeal would be then to not let our cynicism overcome our ability to listen with respect and respond with actions to improve the planet for them.
Seriously, how many of us can really turn to a child today and say, "don't worry, everything is fine?"
The kids aren't that dumb.

Thanks Gord May, for the rational adult talk.
The Cynicism of some is stiflingly.

A product of our quickly collapsing society.
Mass shootings, Ocean acidification, extinction of species, trashing environmental law, and blatant hate and corruption.
mostly products of our present administration and their reluctance to change.

Good to hear positive words about inevitable change and hopefully more intelligent conversations on what WE as a incredibly powerful influential nation can contribute to the problems.
This is Gretas Message!

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Thanks Gord May, for the rational adult talk.
The Cynicism of some is stiflingly.

A product of our quickly collapsing society.
Mass shootings, Ocean acidification, extinction of species, trashing environmental law, and blatant hate and corruption.
mostly products of our present administration and their reluctance to change.

Good to hear positive words about inevitable change and hopefully more intelligent conversations on what WE as a incredibly powerful influential nation can contribute to the problems.
This is Gretas Message!

All of the "products " you mention are results of Over-Population- whats your solution to that??? Trump caused Over-Population ----Trump caused world corruption?????? Meanwhile China and India are building 2.3 coal fired power plants a week--- 3 years after they signed your beloved Climate Accords.

[AndyEss]

China and India are the two countries that primarily hold the future of carbon emissions on this planet of ours.
The developed countries have squeezed carbon inefficiencies out of their economies.
Prolific consumption of oil and intensive energy based products (can you say recreational boat?) is a feature of a world population that is better fed, adequately housed, schooled, and possessing significant amounts of discretionary income for the first time in world history.
Our problem is too much population which drives this consumption. Anything ethical we can do (like supporting wide spread use of contraception) will pay off far better than Germany, for example, turning off its nuclear power plants after the entirely preventable Fukushima disaster.
Burning lignite to create electricity is idiotic.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

China and India are the two countries that primarily hold the future of carbon emissions on this planet of ours.
The developed countries have squeezed carbon inefficiencies out of their economies.
Prolific consumption of oil and intensive energy based products (can you say recreational boat?) is a feature of a world population that is better fed, adequately housed, schooled, and possessing significant amounts of discretionary income for the first time in world history.
Our problem is too much population which drives this consumption. Anything ethical we can do (like supporting wide spread use of contraception) will pay off far better than Germany, for example, turning off its nuclear power plants after the entirely preventable Fukushima disaster.
Burning lignite to create electricity is idiotic.

Bugga contraception.. something more radical is needed.
Compulsory reversible sterilization on reaching puberty, minimum age and financial qualifications before marriage, de-sterilise after 5yrs of marriage to establish longevity of affections then two children, one of each sex then permanent sterilization.. no running of to impregnate or be impregnated again.. two's your lot.
Natural selection and Darwins law will gradually decrease numbers after an initial stability, as for labour requirements do what the EU does now.. absorb poorer countries so the rich ones can take advantage of the cheap labour at so called 'Minimum Wage'.