Haul Out - Risks/Liability/Responsibility

[KevinE]

So I was just watching a youtube video of this fellow who bought a 70ft power boat and was getting it hauled. Don't know anything about the yard but the lift looked sketchy as I think the capacity of their lift was marginal - in fact they had a hydraulic leak after the boat got out of the water. The owner was questioning this and was worried about them dropping his boat but the operator said he wasn't concerned, this "happens when it overheats...". There were other things as well, the aft strap was half lapped over onto the prop shaft which only became evident after the boat was out of the water so they lowered back in and moved the lift forward another foot.

1. Who's is responsible for establishing the lift strap locations and in this situation, had they bent the shaft, who would cover the repair bill and when does insurance coverage move from what is carried on your vessel to the yards insurance.
2. Is it the owner's responsibility to declare the vessel tonnage and what if this is not known?
3. Who holds responsibility for positioning, quantity and (correct) installation of the jack stands?

Would be curious to see what fine print is on a typical haul out contract and what exclusions are present on a typical boat insurance policy.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by KevinE

So I was just watching a youtube video of this fellow who bought a 70ft power boat and was getting it hauled. Don't know anything about the yard but the lift looked sketchy as I think the capacity of their lift was marginal - in fact they had a hydraulic leak after the boat got out of the water. The owner was questioning this and was worried about them dropping his boat but the operator said he wasn't concerned, this "happens when it overheats...". There were other things as well, the aft strap was half lapped over onto the prop shaft which only became evident after the boat was out of the water so they lowered back in and moved the lift forward another foot.

1. Who's is responsible for establishing the lift strap locations and in this situation, had they bent the shaft, who would cover the repair bill and when does insurance coverage move from what is carried on your vessel to the yards insurance.
2. Is it the owner's responsibility to declare the vessel tonnage and what if this is not known?
3. Who holds responsibility for positioning, quantity and (correct) installation of the jack stands?

Would be curious to see what fine print is on a typical haul out contract and what exclusions are present on a typical boat insurance policy.

In addition to your questions, I’ll start with stating the obvious: the boat’s owner is responsible for everything related to their boat, whether on water or on land.

1. Boat owner is responsible for communicating the lift strap locations on their boat. Even better is to mark them (at the waterline or at the hull/deck joint). Then, if the lift straps aren’t placed in accordance with the marks, the responsibility for any damage (bent prop shaft, cracked hull because bulkheads missed, etc) goes on the yard.
2. Boat owner is responsible for declaring the estimated tonnage. The owner is an idiot if they can’t estimate the tonnage within 20% of actual.
3. The yard is responsible for safely lifting, moving, and supporting the boat on the hard. The boat owner is responsible for confirming bulkhead locations and to inform the yard if any special supports are needed.

If any damage happens to the boat or other liability ensues while in the care of a yard the boat’s insurance is the primary assessor and payer of any claim(s) to the boat’s owner. The boat’s insurance company will deal with the yard’s insurance company as applicable.

Our insurance policy requires the yard and any contractors to have EUR3M liability cover, or up to the value of the boat’s insured value. They require that we notify them of any haul out and provide a copy of the yard’s and any contractors’ insurance policies. This is relatively typical for blue water policies.

[grantmc]

It would have been helpful OP to have included a link to the video of the boat being hauled and then, from the safety of our keyboards, we could have all savaged and mauled the travel lift operator and owner depending on our left or right leanings.

That aside FoxyKitty has covered it very well. The owner needs to know where any delicate equipment is located on the hull. But a couple of small points:

1. some boats require the two strops be tied together with a length of line on each side. That's intended to prevent a relevant strop from sliding aft or fore. Again that's something the owner should know.
2. ALWAYS be there yourself.

Boats do get dropped, they fall sideways in big winds, idiots using grinders or welders have splinters that cause damage to others. The hazards of the boat yard are many.

But every time I've had a boat hauled I've had to sign a waiver that exonerates all liability from the yard no matter the cause. But on the positive I've almost always found yard staff diligent, helpful and assiduous.

[hpeer]

We have hauled in many yards. The experience varies greatly.

As a rule assume the yard is run by idiots who know nothing and try to be prepared to be the Supervisor. Then lay back and only step up to the role when forced to. But be prepared to step up when forced to.

Know your weight and strap locations. Do the slings need to be tied so they will not slip? Do you need to take down a back stay, or be prepared to in case you need to.

How much clearance do you want under the keel?

Take a gander at the storage spot, is the ground soft? Are there a bunch of crab holes? Soft ground.

Will the yard be moving your boat to get other boats in and out?

If strapping down do you or the yard provide the straps? Does the yard REQUIRE guardinage if you are not nearby?

If taking the mast down there are other questions and operations. Last year they resteped the mast, and forgot the boom.

Ideally you will sip coffee and watch. But not always so. And you can never know which way it will go if it is your first time at a yard.

A good operator needs only one assistant. A crowd of helpers at the lift well is not always an indication of competence.

If possible it might be a great idea to go watch a few lifts just to see how it goes at that yard.

Life and lifting can be an adventure.

[Island Time O25]

Been using the same hauler and yard since 2006. What I found most valuable is establishing a personal relationship with them beyond strictly business. The occasional six-packs or wine bottles I have distributed, not to mention cash tips, went a long way in getting me prime spots for winter storage or priority in haul/launch schedules. Or leaving me the keys to the gate to work off hours or on Sundays. Over the years occasional hiccups and scratches were more than compensated by the extra effort and consideration I have received from the owners and the staff. Including some calls in the middle of the winter to come and fix a flapping cover corner or some such. O4 sometimes they would do it themselves and not make a big deal out of it.

In 2006 when I first got the boat I was looking up and down our MA coast for the suitable yard and launch/haulout place. Some I would not 3ven consider after hearing the managers bark at the clients/customers/employees. Others scared me with their triple barbed wire evidencing a problem with the neighborhood. Still others were seemingly ok but would openly poo-poo my then 25 year old 27footer as a potential customer. And the biggest point in the favor of the yard I have chosen was that it was a workingman's yard not a "grey poupon" type a place where a boat owner is seen as an ATM machine for the yard.

[KevinE]

Here is the link - haulout starts at 47:40

https://youtu.be/nHltMp3_bdg?si=TVjyjp3UZbfLYIWD&t=2861

[cal40john]

I always brought this to my haul outs. Lift operators were always grateful for the information.

[PJS]

If your referring to the 70' M/V being pulled (I believe the channel is "In Too Deep") several things that I thought when watching:
1) he did not have strap locations marked at the water line or rub rail. For a 70' length, 4 straps are necessary. With all the running gear, I would have been certain to mark the exact locations of the straps (assuming this is not a new to him/her or the first time hauling). I would have a diagram of the bulkheads to be helpful as well.
2) he asked the yard manager the lift tonnage while the boat is in the sling being lifted. If my boat weighted 70 tons, I would make certain to ask that question when scheduling the haul out.
3) a hydraulic hose leaking is not only a safety issue if it ruptured, but is losing lift capacity as well. You could see the bow was lower than the stern. I would have had the boat put back in the water and said see ya.

Even if the yard requires a release form be filed, liability remains with the yard. No one wins in litigation, except the lawyers.

The question about what would insurance cover if the yard caused damage. underwriters policy can very greatly so I would ensure you know your policy restrictions/exclusions. I gave a list of about 40 questions to my broker to have answered when we shopped our boat policy. I combine policies for several business and personal so I have been treated well by my underwriter and broker.

I think to many, a haul out is just a regular occurrence and they assume the yard knows what they are doing and all will be problem free.

I only go to reputable yards that I know haul out my type of boat. I make a point of getting to know the manager and yard crew. A little love goes a long way, not always but it can never hurt to flip a few $20's.

[KevinE]

Originally Posted by PJS

3) a hydraulic hose leaking is not only a safety issue if it ruptured, but is losing lift capacity as well. You could see the bow was lower than the stern. I would have had the boat put back in the water and said see ya.

When the lift operator finished, you can hear him mumbling something about overheating, something about a spring and that he wasn't worried... I, as the owner, would be crapping my pants in that situation...it looked like that lift was at its load capacity judging by how loaded the engine was.

I think the perception of who is in charge during the lift plays a big role if something goes sideways - probably best as the owner to not play the part of the "expert" but rather ask questions (in the presence of others) if in doubt about something and have the yard make the final decision.

I think the takeaway here, strictly from a legal perspective, is review your insurance policy and haul-out contract in detail to make sure you are in compliance - and if in doubt, have your insurer review the contract. If you don't know your lift points, find out BEFORE you drive into the lift slip - this could take a couple of weeks if you have to communicate with the manufacturer.