Heaving to- Fore reaching- Lying Ahull

[Telemark43]

My story, good memory, made some minor adjustments, true to events, Rescue Swimmer and USCG were super, I wrote that they did what I would have done in their place

Originally Posted by hpeer

A story to whet conversation. Not my story.

A couple of years ago chatted with a mid-70’s gentleman. He was approaching Beaufort, NC, south of Cape Hatteras. Got caught in some nasty and put out a drogue. His analysis is that he had the drogue out too early and slowed too much which allowed the seas to poop the boat. He took a knock down which killed the engine.

At some point he tried to make a check in call (wellness) to the USCG and got no response. But someone heard him



and a C130 flew over to look and was unable to make radio contact. Then they dispatched a rescue chopper.



They dropped a swimmer in.


The rescue swimmer missed the boat but I had dropped about 200 feet of line off the stern just in case... and the rescue swimmer pulled himself hand over hand to the boat which was still moving at about a knot. A marvelous feat



Once the swimmer was aboard the Capt asked him if he wanted some coffee. After the joint laugh the swimmer told him he had 5 min to make a decision...


1. You are not injured, not sinking, you can stay aboard. Weather is rapidly deteriorating and will be terrible for the next three days. Without a good functional radio, engine, and being about 100 miles offshore, we likely would not be able to assist you ...you probably would end up off the Grand Banks...


2. In about three hours a cutter could tow you in, the cutter captain would be in charge and you would have to stay aboard. If things went bad, the cutter protocol would not be able to take you aboard, another rescue swimmer/helio would have to come out.

3. You can come with me now and someone else can come and return your vessel.



Being tired and somewhat confused he agreed to be lifted off.


I was single handing mid December coming from about 350 miles about half way from Bermuda, and had no sleep for about six days.


In retrospect he felt the boat sea worthy and he should have stayed with her. But the unexpected rescue and ultimatum unnerved him and he went along. He had by then purchased a Hans Christen (Lord Nelson Cutter) and hope his vessel would eventually show up.



No salvage company would risk the weather and the distance to retrieve the vessel. She broadcast her location via EPIRB thirty days later about 250 miles east of Hatteras but was considered lost.


I carry drogues on both boats, 2 on the big. A Gale Rider and a Sea Break. My understanding is the purpose of the drogue is to slow the boat but not stop it. You want to retain headway (2-5 knots) without going so fast you broach or pitch pole. A Jordan Series drogue provides more resistance and will slow a boat more, or so I’m told.

I’ve only hove to once, this summer, to slow down and avoid some wx. Wind was in mid 20’s, somewhere on the beam. 2 reefs in main and she laid about 45° making a couple of knots. I didn’t lash the wheel as she was fine where she was.
By morning we had 8’ seas with the occasional 10’er. Yet we were sleeping below. Winds approaching 30. We then continued on. No drama.

The Sea Break doubles as a flopper stopper and has other uses as well.

No moral to the ramble, just relating my meager experience.

[MicHughV]

If there is one common thread to this topic.....I have to give the USCG the nod....if they can save your ass outa a jam...they will...they are are truly the unsung heroes of the day....who else will climb in a helicopter, travel 100's of miles, lower themselves into the water, at their own risk, to come and get your sorry ass outa a jam...it's the Coasties....I'm 100% in their court......100%....100%......they deserve nothing but our admiration and respect !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hpeer]

Telemark43,

Thanks for you kind words regarding my memory, a rare thing these days.

I hope this finds you well. I think of you and your story occasionally.

[rslifkin]

As far as surfing down waves, the wave steepness, distance between waves, handling tendencies of the boat, and bow shape will all determine how fast you can let the boat go before things are likely to go sideways. The more buoyant the bow, the faster you should be able to go before you start to stick the bow hard enough into the next wave to run out of ability to keep the boat straight and risk broaching. A more buoyant bow will tend to climb the next wave and gently slow down rather than stuffing into it and encouraging the stern to come around.

[MicHughV]

people can pontificate about theories all day long...but until it's your arse in a jam..it's all moot...
whats the saying in warfare...after the first salvo, all bets are off.....ditto anything on this thread...unless you've been dere and dun dat...it's all talk...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

people can pontificate about theories all day long...but until it's your arse in a jam..it's all moot...
whats the saying in warfare...after the first salvo, all bets are off.....ditto anything on this thread...unless you've been dere and dun dat...it's all talk...

Never tell folks what to do.. only what I have done.
That I am here to post about it just proves whats possible..
Not if it will work for you or whether your boats or nerves can take it.
Be lucky.. 😀

[MicHughV]

ayr, boatman61, ne'er a truer word said...!!!!

these forums are a fun read, but until it's you arse in jam...it's all blah blah blah....

I'm a big proponent of I'd rather be lucky than right...and so far.....so good !!

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

ayr, boatman61, ne'er a truer word said...!!!!

these forums are a fun read, but until it's you arse in jam...it's all blah blah blah....

I'm a big proponent of I'd rather be lucky than right...and so far.....so good !!

I think it's a good thing to read about sailor's experiences....thats how we learn. I don't see anybody pontificating here.

[JPA Cate]

There's a CF member, mikereed100, who reported in a thread here about his use of a JDS with his catamaran. I have been looking and haven't been able to find the thread. Maybe someone with better search skills than me will be able to find it.

Ann

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

There's a CF member, mikereed100, who reported in a thread here about his use of a JDS with his catamaran. I have been looking and haven't been able to find the thread. Maybe someone with better search skills than me will be able to find it.

Ann

This one?

[spiv]

I've been caught twice on catamarans with over 60Kn winds, twice on a forecast of 30~35, both times unprepared and for the higher winds and both times close to shore, but going with the weather.

Since both times I set sail to take advantage of the downwind ride, both times I was going just with the genoa (I take the main down in any forecast of more than 30kn).

1- Schionning 42". started with full genoa at 25kn, then slowly reduced it as the wind increased. When I read gusts of 50+ knots AW we were doing 12kn, always on autopilot, seating comfortably in the saloon.

2- My current Lagoon 380. Same departure and procedure, but this time the AW wind got to the mid 50s.... Again just on autopilot going with the wind (160 to 220). Average speed 12kn.

Both times I furled the Genoa to have perhaps 1mq of sail.
while I was apprehensive, and alert, both boats never started to bury the bows or showing signs of getting water in the cockpit,so I felt fairly safe.

What would happen if the AP failed??? i don't think I can steer the boat as well. Then I'd get cold and tired, so perhaps I'd just use a drogue.

But, my main effort will always be in trying not to get caught again....

[chriswheat]

I'm about halfway through Storm tactics Handbook by Lin & Larry Pardey, I highly recommend it. It covers everything you ask about.

[barnakiel]

Yep. An interesting point.


Cats need / use APs. Many monos will use windvanes however.


So the AP in a cat is another element that needs to be sized for any blow - powerful and maybe above all, responsive.


Big racing boats use such APs too (e.g. IMOCAs, Orma, Class 40, etc.).



Just thinking aloud.



b.

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by chriswheat

I'm about halfway through Storm tactics Handbook by Lin & Larry Pardey, I highly recommend it. It covers everything you ask about.

Yes, I definitely intend to read it.

However, I'm not sure if everything the Pardey's write about applies to catamarans.

Some cat sailors say they are unable to get their boats to heave to. Some cat sailors opine that lying ahull in severe conditions is a sure fire way to get rolled.

I'm not sure if I've read about fore reaching in a cat in severe conditions....might be the better course of action if faced with a lee shore.

Storm gear seems to provide the best options, esp the Jordan series drogue if one has the sea room.

I'm not sure about sea anchors, though I know some cat sailors carry them.

The snapping of rudders and salt water enimas up the exhausts whilst sliding backwards has been mentioned. Something to consider if one has sea room and opts to run with the storm instead.

[roland stockham]

Absolutely agree with those saying the Pardies book on storm tactics may not work for cats or heavy long keelers may not respond quickly enough. What matters in storm or survival conditions is how your boat behaves and what your crew is capable of doing on the day. A storm tactic that works fine with a strong fresh crew may be a disaster when solo or when the crew is cold tired and seasick. Likewise something that works for a heavyweight traditional boat maybe the last thing you want in a lightweight flyer. Books and others experiences and great places to start but only building experience in your own boat will refine that into a workable strategy.
One encouragement however is that the storm you imagined is always worse than the one you weathered at sea. In a good boat with sea room a gale is uncomfortable but no more, a storm is scary but not life threatening. Don't sail in a hurricane zone!!!