Heavy Monohulls vs Light Catamarans

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Joli

We find sailing an average over 10 knots in the ocean is uncomfortable. A 200 mile day is an 8.4 knot average, it's a comfortable place for us. But that doesn't mean we aren't sailing above 10 knots, we just don't keep the boat at that pace. Looking at passage times I don't see many that are faster then 200 mile days, see state tends to slow everyone down.

I am pretty sure that on a downwind ocean passage it is easier to do a 200+ mile day on a catamaran (at least a performance catamaran) than it is on most medium size monohulls, and probably more comfortable.

Our old 43' IOR monohull is not much fun when it is pushed hard enough to do 200 miles. 175 miles however, is pretty easy.

Upwind? A VMG of 5.0 (in 22 knots of true wind) gives 120 miles in 24 hours. Nor is this going to be comfortable, but it can be done, and few, if any, cruising catamarans of comparable size or price could do it, even under power. Sometimes you need to.

For example crossing from Fiji to New Zealand, we had 4 days of it. How do you avoid that? (meaning, you can't always go downwind).

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Capdave360

13 days from Palma to St. Lucia on a 42' boat - that's really working it!! And sub-12 days on a TS5 - those people weren't loafing either, they were working hard. That's the problem looking at cruising races - you just don't know how hard the crews are competing. Put that TS5 crew on any other boat, bet you cut a bunch off the time.....

Yep. They did. I was onboard both, pre-start.



Interestingly, while 13 days on a 40'er is a fine result, what will you say to a 21 days in a plastick Folkboat? 25' waterline and definitely pre-CAD design (from I think 1920 or thereabout).


The Folkboat covered 125 over miles TT each and every day of that passage. An interesting example of a heavy (not very heavy) and fast boat.



Cheers,

b.

[Yotiheff]

Agreed. Like to say I’ve won a few races in the heaviest boat in the fleet but I can only remember very few and that was back in dinghy days. Bit more difficult in bigger yachts where it’s a good bunch in a Worlds. More data=better conclusion.
Gotta go.My girl has to get off this b.. Hardstand tomorrow.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Depends on the boat, doesn't it?



I find sailing faster than hull speed minus 1 knot starts to get tiring on monohulls. That's a pace for 200 mile days on our boat. We very rarely break 200 miles; our record I think is 223. To approach hull speed from hull speed minus one starts to take enormous power; producing that power takes a whole different level of effort even if the conditions are good for it.


On the other hand, my friend with a Swan 90 did 250 miles day after day, effortlessly, while crossing the Pacific, and broke 300 a few times.


In our old boat, a heavyish 37 foot mono, a 200 mile day is a mere wet dream (so to speak). Never happen. 150 miles was a real good day.


It depends on the boat.

Yes, exactly, it depends on the boat. We, my wife and I, sail a C&C 61 with the tall rig, 93'. It's a function of waterline, and power to take advantage of the waterline. It's an easy boat to sail and although old and heavy it's quick with a PHRF rating of -21.

If I could afford a Swan 90 I would buy one but a 90 footer would require more crew then my wife and I. 😁

[Joli]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I am pretty sure that on a downwind ocean passage it is easier to do a 200+ mile day on a catamaran (at least a performance catamaran) than it is on most medium size monohulls, and probably more comfortable.

Our old 43' IOR monohull is not much fun when it is pushed hard enough to do 200 miles. 175 miles however, is pretty easy.

Upwind? A VMG of 5.0 (in 22 knots of true wind) gives 120 miles in 24 hours. Nor is this going to be comfortable, but it can be done, and few, if any, cruising catamarans of comparable size or price could do it, even under power. Sometimes you need to.

For example crossing from Fiji to New Zealand, we had 4 days of it. How do you avoid that? (meaning, you can't always go downwind).

We're a bit larger at 61'. Down wind we tend to sail angles to stop the rolling and easily make 8~9~10's even in light wind with a kite. Upwind, in racing trim our vmg is about 7.5. In tough weather it can be uncomfortable so we slow down.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Joli

We're a bit larger at 61'. Down wind we tend to sail angles to stop the rolling and easily make 8~9~10's even in light wind with a kite. Upwind, in racing trim our vmg is about 7.5. In tough weather it can be uncomfortable so we slow down.

I've been wondering about you and your boat, since I knew a Joli C&C61 back in Seattle in the early 80's or thereabouts. Owned by Bill Niemi. Was involved big time in the Helena Star Drug bust scandal.

Was blue back then.

It would be interesting if it was the same boat.

[Jim Cate]

RE getting good day's runs: I remember that long ago, Steve Dashew advised one to buy as much LWL as you could afford, that being more important than any other factor in speed and comfort afloat.

Good advice, IMO!

Jim

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

RE getting good day's runs: I remember that long ago, Steve Dashew advised one to buy as much LWL as you could afford, that being more important than any other factor in speed and comfort afloat.

Good advice, IMO!

Jim

Yeah, Good advice. Unfortunately it meant I ended up with a 43' boat with a 34' waterline. Ha!

On the bright side. Judy and I can handle it. We can do just about anything we want to on this boat. Any bigger loads and I'm not sure.

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This is one of the greatest reasons I have a high performance cat.

The top speed stuff is fun, but it's being able to go out in smooth, flat conditions with little wind, get plenty of sail area up and comfortably make a reasonable speed getting to your destination.

That's what my dream is.

I've spent most of my life on boats (of all types) wishing for more wind. I'm trying to have a boat that doesn't need much wind.

Amen.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I've been wondering about you and your boat, since I knew a Joli C&C61 back in Seattle in the early 80's or thereabouts. Owned by Bill Niemi. Was involved big time in the Helena Star Drug bust scandal.

Was blue back then.

It would be interesting if it was the same boat.

Same boat, bigger rig, now white. Dark boats are beautiful but hot in the tropics.

This is us. http://svjoli.blogspot.com/2020/05/p...as-to.html?m=1

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Joli

Same boat, bigger rig, now white. Dark boats are beautiful but hot in the tropics.

This is us. http://svjoli.blogspot.com/2020/05/p...as-to.html?m=1

Cool post. Didn’t know C&C made something that big back in the day. Does it have rudder trim tabs? Looks like 2 wheels but maybe one is binnacle ?

[Joli]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Cool post. Didn’t know C&C made something that big back in the day. Does it have rudder trim tabs? Looks like 2 wheels but maybe one is binnacle ?

No trim tabs, just a scimtar rudder.