Heavy weather, can we be honest?

[TJ D]

Hi Forum,

Over the years, I've had a passing interest in how others report their heavy weather experiences.

Most often, it's something like "when I'm sailing in 50 knots of wind, I do X"

Or "We had 55 knots for 3 straight days!"

Man, I make my living offshore on the Bering Sea in the middle of winter and that much wind for that long is extremely rare even up there. It happens, but it's not like cruising boats are out enjoying the Aleutians in November.

Others make it sound like in their travels, encountering full-blown storms is commonplace to the point of being routine.

Really? Honestly?

I've been sailing since I was a kid (45 now), and have racked up something in the neighborhood of 50,000 miles by now. Lots of passages of a week or more, one or two of a couple of weeks or thereabouts. Most of this has been done in the trades, but I've been to Alaska a couple of times, down the west coast a few times, a couple of trips to Newfoundland, one N. Atlantic crossing.

Anyway, I've been doing this for long enough that I feel like I can call myself experienced.

In all that sailing, I have only encountered two proper gales, meaning SUSTAINED winds of 34 knots or higher, and only once have I seen SUSTAINED storm force winds, and that was just for a few hours.

Sustained is important. I think that a lot of people look at the highest gust and call that their wind speed- it's not. A 50 knot gust does not mean you were sailing in F10.

So, tell me-am I just lucky?

The Hiscocks said that in 3 circumnavigations, they never really saw bad weather, and this was before any decent forecasting, or at least the means to get it at sea.

So, it's got me wondering- how many of you have really dealt with true storm conditions in your travels? I'm not talking about the Southern ocean/Cape Horn crowd, of course, but just ordinary cruisers doing ordinary routes in the proper season.

I've still never seen them sailing, and have pretty good confidence that the odds of encountering a full-blown storm on the routes I cruise are pretty small.

I've still got all the gear, and know how to use it, but I would actually be pretty surprised to ever set my trysail in anger. I certainly hope to never have to.

Anyway, no offense to anybody. I'm not doubting anyone's word, but I'm just pointing out the slight disparity between my own experience and what others have reported.

Maybe I'm just a weenie and wait longer than most will tolerate for the right weather window? My boat's fast, and we can probably route more effectively than most because of that, but the previous 3 boats were slow, full keeled rigs, and we still never really got hammered.

Thanks, I look forward to hearing from you guys.
TJ

[Mike OReilly]

This will be interesting...

I have only twice sailed in sustained winds in the upper 30s/low 40s. Once was off the coast of Vancouver, heading north, sailing a Valiant. The other was on Lake Superior sailing west in my Rafiki. Both cases the duration was about six/eight hours. And in both cases boats and crew did fine, but it was not what I consider fun.

I know there have been a few more days in the upper 20s/low 30s, but only a few more. The vast majority of my sailing time has been done in under 20, and all too often in the under 10 or even 5 knot range.

I am usually content to wait out bad stuff if I can. I don’t seek heavy weather sailing, much like I don’t taunt a bear. I know how to handle both if/when I encounter them, but it’s not something I look for or enjoy.

[Don C L]

Someone posted a video recently of sailing in a 40 knot wind. I thought, maybe I really need to get a good anemometer, because if that's true I've sailed in lots of 40 knot days... and I know I haven't.

[TJ D]

Well, recreational sailors certainly aren't known for claiming lower wind speeds than they were seeing!

I've certainly spent enough time in the E. Caribbean, for example, to have heard the Christmas winds called 'heavy weather'. While they can get to the occasional F8, it doesn't really fit that definition in my book.

Maybe this kind of stuff is what many are calling storm sailing. I just don't know. Hence the thread...

[belizesailor]

TJD, I think your experience is representative. Today, with all the weather resources available, most heavy weather can be avoided all together.

The Pardeys in one of their books estimated how many days they had been in significant heavy weather. I forget the number, but it was quite a small percentage.

Over about 25 years of sailing, Ive only been caught a few times by unexpected serious heavy weather (if we define that as over 40 knots sustained).

I used to teach a heavy weather sailing class...which we of course deliberately scheduled for foul weather...so Ive been intentionally out in foul weather probably more than most...but just for fun! 😆

[Diesel Bill]

Hi TJ D, I've been around sailors and been one for many years and I know we all (most all) love to tell a good sea story. You might say embellish just a bit. I have a few stories of my own which I will swear on a stack of bibles as true.
I've been around boats since childhood and have enough experience to know when I'm in over my head. Spent 20 years sailing Merchant Marine, 10 plus years up to Valdez, Ak. in winter and summer in the TAPS trade, so I do know what winter storms are like in the Gulf of Ak. So here's what happened to me. Bought my 2nd sailboat in 1976 or 77. It was a nice little wooden pocket cruiser, center cockpit, ketch rigged, wheel steering, low free board, initially tender but very stable when loaded down. Was a 26 foot, 27 LOA Saint Pierre dory with small cabin fwd and a smaller cabin aft. Lots of rocker on the bottom and much flair to the hull. Very sea worthy by the way.
Ok, enough about the boat, I just wanted to describe it before continuing my story.
I took leave from work.(quit) and decided to take a year off and take the boat down to Mexico. Left the marina in Oakland, Ca. in January. Got over to Half Moon Bay and anchored for a couple of days to square away loose gear and stow stores.
I followed the marine weather reports for a week and reports were for winds from the N.E. at 10-15 KTS. Seas 6-10 ft. More or less decent weather for heading south. Raised anchor early morning and headed out. We (ex wife and I) put up jib, main and mizzen and set a course for Santa Cruz for our next port.
About mid afternoon we spotted black clouds off the stb. beam about 10 miles out.
I dropped and stowed the mizzen and put a deep reef in the main. The seas started building so I dropped and stowed the jib also. Just as I made it back to the cockpit the squall hit us. The wind with initial gusts was easily 50-60 knots. The boat buried the port rail down to the comings as I eased the main sheet to spill some air. The seas continued too build till we were down in the troughs with the wave tops equal to our mast top. My guess was 25-30 foot wave height from trough to top. Every time we were lifted by a wave the wind would lay us over on the side and bury the rail and deck to the coming. This continued till around midnight. I had on t-shirt, long john shirt, wool flannel shirt and a thick float coat and was chilled to the bone. The worst time was after dark and we couldn't see the waves coming from over the stb. quarter. A few of them snuck up on us and we were pooped several times. Luckily the cockpit drains took care of the water quickly. Some time after midnight the wind started to die down and the steep seas layed down but the swells were still huge and greasy smooth with a large distance between them. I had my little 25 HP Grey Marine flat head started previously,
just ticking over with a fast idle. We were about 10 miles off the coast and the skies were clear after the storm passed. A full moon rose up over the coastal mountains.
It was the largest moon I had ever seen. Suddenly a grey whale surfaced 10-15 yds off the port beam and stayed with us for what seemed like a 1/2 hour or more.
Dawn finally came and we were outside northern Monterey Bay. We tried to make it in closer but an out going tide overpowered my little boat. We were so exhausted that we shut down and went below to crash out for a few hours sleep till around noon. As the tide turned we rode the flood into Santa Cruz harbor. Tied up at the harbor master's dock and tried to walk the dock and couldn't find my balance. I staggered up the dock and ramp like a drunk. When I walked into the office the harbor master looked stunned and asked if we were out in that storm last night. I answered yes and he told me they recorded winds of 78 MPH, trees knocked down, roofs blown off houses and worst of all 3 boats lost and missing. I think we were extremely lucky to have survived but I also believe some was my skill as boat handler. Dory hulls are very sea worthy and the Saint Pierre Dory is a direct blown up copy of the Banks Dory. They were made for hand line cod fishing up off the Grand Banks of Newfoundland.
Well that's my story and I'm tired of typing. Wife bailed on the boat trip. I couldn't blame her. She never set foot on the boat again. I started sailing commercial the following year and bailed on her. Met my present wife and been together 27 years now. to bad she isn't into boating either.

[Paul Elliott]

The worst I've sailed in was off the southern Oregon coast in June, 2014. We were heading south (with the wind, fortunately). We had true average windspeeds of around 45 kts for a few hours, with seas of perhaps up to 20 ft (rough guess, but I think close). Here's our wind chart leading up to near the peak:


The top speed indicated on our B&G wind gauge was 60 kts, but that was probably more of a spike than a legal gust.

Here's a hint of the sea state:




Things were getting worse as we headed offshore, so we jibed and made for shallower waters. The conditions gradually improved, but I would say we were in 35kt+ winds and big seas for perhaps twelve hours. We did take a few boarding waves, and one time the two on-watch crewmen were washed into the lifelines. We were all wearing tethers, and a good thing, too! At about ten miles from the coast the seas were more confused, but the swells smaller and the wind significantly lower. The boat and crew handled it all very well.

Here's my blog post about that trip: The Friday Harbor to San Francisco Delivery in Pictures « VALIS

[Panope]

This gale was forecast right on the money. I ventured out for a day-sail to test a new (to me) storm jib.

NOAA reported wind 38 kts. Gust 45. I was sailing a mile or two upwind of the station. Does not get any more honest than that.

Inland water - waves not large.

Because this boat is somewhat tender, I consider my storm sails to be working sails.

Was a fun day. I would like to do more of this.

A night on the open ocean will probably cure me of this itch.

Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLrz24IMw1U

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

The worst I've sailed in was off the southern Oregon coast in June, 2014. We were heading south (with the wind, fortunately).s « VALIS

Paul,

Funny you should mention that place! This is also where I experienced my only true storm force winds. We were about 80 miles offshore (I followed Jimmy Cornell's advice on that one-here's one of the few times he has it wrong...), and we got just hammered.

I think that the zone between roughly Newport and C. Mendocino has got to be one of the most awful places around. The next 2 times I made that trip, I stayed inshore and had a MUCH better time of things.

I'm fully with you on that one!
TJ

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Panope

This gale was forecast right on the money. I ventured out for a day-sail to test a new (to me) storm jib.

NOAA reported wind 38 kts. Gust 45. I was sailing a mile or two upwind of the station. Does not get any more honest than that.

Inland water - waves not large.

Because this boat is somewhat tender, I consider my storm sails to be working sails.

Was a fun day. I would like to do more of this.

A night on the open ocean will probably cure me of this itch.

Steve

Steve, I wasn't suggesting that these wind speeds don't exist (note my occupation-I've been in more hurricane force storms than I can remember) but in the course of normal cruising , how often are they encountered? Going out looking for gale force winds to sail in is excellent practice, and can be a hell of a lot of fun, especially in sheltered waters.

TJ

[TJ D]

Diesel Bill, it sounds like living to tell the tale was not a foregone conclusion on that one. Well done.

[Panope]

I hear ya, TJ.

I can only imagine the weather you've seen in the Bering Sea.

I was just throwing in my (insignificant) two cents, and perhaps give an example of an accurate wind-speed report.

Steve

[Kenomac]

We have well-known wind patterns here in Mediterranean unique to the geography that can produce high winds for several days at a time. Most notable for us has been the Mistral off Southern France and the Bora in the Adriatic. We've experienced the Bora a few times in protected anchorages, the Mistral has caught us out sailing a couple of times, the most significant was ten hours in 40-49 knots sustained on the beam.

These aren't fictitious as mariners throughout recorded history have reported these well-known winds and many tens of thousands of boats have sunk, just read your history books.

Here's a diagram showing the patterns and a Weather4G screenshot taken on a day I was tucked into a protected cove off Olbia during a Mistral in late May.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Panope

This gale was forecast right on the money. I ventured out for a day-sail to test a new (to me) storm jib.

NOAA reported wind 38 kts. Gust 45. I was sailing a mile or two upwind of the station. Does not get any more honest than that.

Inland water - waves not large.

Because this boat is somewhat tender, I consider my storm sails to be working sails.

Was a fun day. I would like to do more of this.

A night on the open ocean will probably cure me of this itch.

Steve
]

The forecast and actual conditions seen in your video look spot on according to our experience. Thanks for sharing.

Note: Many doubters here on CF because what they see in actual videos taken, doesn't match up with Hollyweird movies or what they imagine. Not so many in real life.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We have well-known wind patterns here in Mediterranean unique to the geography that can produce high winds for several days at a time. Most notable for us has been the Mistral off Southern France and the Bora in the Adriatic. We've experienced the Bora a few times in protected anchorages, the Mistral has caught us out sailing a couple of times, the most significant was ten hours in 40-49 knots sustained on the beam.

These aren't fictitious as mariners throughout recorded history have reported these well-known winds and many tens of thousands of boats have sunk, just read your history books.

Here's a diagram showing the patterns and a Weather4G screenshot taken on a day I was tucked into a protected cove off Olbia during a Mistral in late May.

I don't think that anybody would dispute that these Med winds are real, of course not.

There are well known, strong local winds all over the world, and the Med has plenty. If you go out looking for hurricane force winds to go sailing in, you can surely find them. The question is whether or not in the course of normal (prudent) cruising, how often is getting hit by heavy weather happening to people? In the 50k I've done, I've had a true force 10 just a single time.

I know that occasionally the Med winds will pop up without being forecast.

A question, Ken- Did you know that you were going to see very strong winds, and it blew harder than you anticipated, or was this a total surprise?