Help from strangers while docking? A poll and my rambling musings.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Polski Gus

Let's not miss the point. If needed give polite and direct instructions - no thank you or yes, please do.... Whether you think you're the best skipper out there, you someday may need assistance. Could be out on the water, or on the dock - medical or boat wise. Don't yell or curse at someone - that's offensive, rude and you are being a jack wagon. Be an example and a teacher if someone is doing something not quite to your liking or correctly. For those thinking they are God's gift to the boating world - you're not and you didn't start out all knowing.

If you are coming down the fairway cursing like a drunken pirate before you are 100 yards from the slip, I agree.

But docking is often time sensitive and if they go to shove or pull when you don't want them to, escalating thru firm and into cussing them out to get their attention/reaction may be fully justified.

Since we normally don't request assistance or leave lines where they can easily be snatched, it's usually not a problem but I have had to escalate the commands to get attention. Usually after the boat is secure, I will go talk to them under much more calm conditions and explain why it had to be escalated and issues we've had in the past with people trying to "help". That has always seemed to settle hurt feelings.

[Montanan]

Least we do not forget to have proper attire for the skipper of any boat to be wearing after docking at a marina.



There also be an "anticipatory" version of this attire which reads:

"Sorry for what I may say while docking the boat." for which skippers can put on BEFORE entering the marina.

[PirateBarnabus]

This is a great topic. I always use a central spring to a rear cleat or capstan. The method has never failed me and once attached, with the boat in gear forward, she always hugs the Dock whilst other lines are attached.

I find helpers don't often understand this, so we attach it ourselves wherever possible.
If an enthusiastic helper demands a line, we give him the bow line because even if he falls in the water with it, it won't hinder our arrival.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Habana

Have you ever pulled into a marina you've never been to in the middle of the night, winds at 30 knots, in a foreign country, after a week in heavy seas just to find out the berth you've been assigned is occupied? The only berth available is at the end of a concrete quay where the wind and current are working against you. I had to do this recently. There were a few sailors who saw us attempting to med-moor on the spot and promptly offered to help. We were sure happy to have the assistance. At any time I could have waved them off, but given the crap conditions I sure was happy for the extra hands.

Oh man, in those conditions I am sure you were! You've described something foul enough that I may have anchored right in the marina to wait for better conditions, light, new berthing, etc. Glad you didn't need to!

Speaking of med mooring;
I spent a lot of time in no name harbor in key Biscayne this year, and as polarizing as the place can be, I loved it. I did think it would be really great fun to organize a cruiser/sailboat gathering there on a Friday/Saturday where everyone got there promptly at 8am (soonest "legal" time) and everyone med moored just as close as we could to fill the whole dock with everyone rafted right next to each other.

- AT

[nofacey]

Lol….I ‘ve really found that it helps having the key line….the aft spring…..a distinctly different colour than the rest.
“ please take the blue line and cleat it back” seems to work more often than not - and the admiral, though no longer quick jumping off the boat, is very willing to grab the spring out of anyone’s hands not doing what’s needed, and getting it cleated. She knows once that line is attached, we’re in control.

So we always accept help with guidance and reinforcement

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by lestersails

As usual, M O'R hits the nail on the head. It is actually difficult to write good polling questions. The author usually brings biases and presumptions to the table, embeds them in the questions, and then wonders why the responses make no sense. Because the respondents have a different set of biases and presumptions. When you see good polling, it is impressive. Like line handling, not for amateurs.

FWIW - I voted for accepting help. Probably because I am not as good as some of the pros here. One of my favorite evenings was sitting with a drink in Hawksnest Bay and watched a single-hander with a pretty 27-30 foot boat glide in under sail, perfectly position the boat to account for the wind and momentum, then calmly walk to the bow and pick up the pennant. I bet he doesn't like help at the dock either.

I am biased about the questions, as I wrote them.

I think they were well formulated, further permutation would make for a confusing amount of permutations in my opinion. Yes/no/maybe for big/small is 6 options. Add yes/no/maybe independent of size to that, that's 9. There is a limit imposed by the forum, I think 6 would make it but 9 wouldn't.

I didn't vote, personally. I don't like the two party system.

- AT

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

I am biased about the questions, as I wrote them.

I think they were well formulated, further permutation would make for a confusing amount of permutations in my opinion. Yes/no/maybe for big/small is 6 options. Add yes/no/maybe independent of size to that, that's 9. There is a limit imposed by the forum, I think 6 would make it but 9 wouldn't.

I didn't vote, personally. I don't like the two party system.

- AT

Yeah... The CF polling system just isn't very sophisticated, so while the results from these polls are interesting, they don't really tell us very much.

What would be interesting to know is the actual characteristics of each Yes and No voter. From there one could see if there are common themes such as

• boat size/type
• crew size
• crew experience
• location
• perhaps personality type.

I predict we'd find a couple of factors which push people into one camp or another.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Grancan

Atcowboy, I wouldn't like to have you has my dock neighbor when I am exhausted and coming in to dock, in 20 knots winds. I understand that as a solo sailor you should know when people may need help docking, every situation is different, just don't be the kind of jackass not to offer help as a rule of thumb
My two cents

Someone who would think this is acceptable to say to someone else wouldn't deserve anyone's help. Didn't your mother teach you better? Shame.

- AT

[desodave]

I'm finding it quite amusing to see the poll numbers strongly favour help wanted [ 86-48 at this point] while most of the anecdotes are about screw-ups while using that help, or "stay away from me I'll do it myself" posts.

I've previously posted that I always appreciate that help but I haven't seen anyone yet note the typical AK, BC, WA docks that have bull rails not cleats on them. There's not usually anything to drop a spring line over to power against the dock so that useful option just doesn't exist here.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yeah... The CF polling system just isn't very sophisticated, so while the results from these polls are interesting, they don't really tell us very much.

What would be interesting to know is the actual characteristics of each Yes and No voter. From there one could see if there are common themes such as

• boat size/type
• crew size
• crew experience
• location
• perhaps personality type.

I predict we'd find a couple of factors which push people into one camp or another.

True, I'm sure it would tell us more. In a past life I did a lot of data gathering and making suppositions based on it. This was meant to be less scientific and more engaging. And besides a few who have brought a little more mustard to bear than is needed, I've really enjoyed the views expressed.

- AT

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by desodave

I've previously posted that I always appreciate that help but I haven't seen anyone yet note the typical AK, BC, WA docks that have bull rails not cleats on them. There's not usually anything to drop a spring line over to power against the dock so that useful option just doesn't exist here.

We've yet to encounter a setup like that anywhere, but at the same time, being a fairly high freeboard boat and having docked in a wide variety of places, we don't plan on being able to snag a cleat from the boat or anything. Generally our plan (crew of 2) is for me to align the approach such that the admiral can calmly and safely step off with a spring line. Depending on conditions, dock layout, etc. I may follow almost immediately with a stern line, or I may wait for her to secure the aft spring, then power against it to pin the boat in place while we take care of the next few lines.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by desodave

I'm finding it quite amusing to see the poll numbers strongly favour help wanted [ 86-48 at this point] while most of the anecdotes are about screw-ups while using that help, or "stay away from me I'll do it myself" posts.

I've previously posted that I always appreciate that help but I haven't seen anyone yet note the typical AK, BC, WA docks that have bull rails not cleats on them. There's not usually anything to drop a spring line over to power against the dock so that useful option just doesn't exist here.

Definitely more difficult. I had to Google what that was, so thanks for the lesson! The dinghy dock in Bristol, RI has bull rails and I think there bull... something. You shouldn't need a fid to tie off your dink! I'm sure with more clearance, it would be much easier to use.

- AT

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by desodave

I'm finding it quite amusing to see the poll numbers strongly favour help wanted [ 86-48 at this point] while most of the anecdotes are about screw-ups while using that help, or "stay away from me I'll do it myself" posts.

Yeah... I noticed that too. It's the old "news is always bad" syndrome. Good stories aren't made from events where everything goes well. That's the norm. Stories (and news items) come from the unusual.

Originally Posted by desodave

I've previously posted that I always appreciate that help but I haven't seen anyone yet note the typical AK, BC, WA docks that have bull rails not cleats on them. There's not usually anything to drop a spring line over to power against the dock so that useful option just doesn't exist here.

Like these? And what do you do with a cleat like this ?!?

[rslifkin]

Occasional giant cleats or other weird stuff to tie to, plus unpredictable cleat placement are why we typically come into an unfamiliar dock with excessively long lines rigged. If I've got no idea what to expect, we'll typically come in with a 50 footer on the spring cleat, 35 footers bow and stern and another 50 and 35 close at hand. And then plan to swap out for shorter lines if needed once we're in (we don't carry anything shorter than 25 footers though).

[desodave]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yeah... I noticed that too. It's the old "news is always bad" syndrome. Good stories aren't made from events where everything goes well. That's the norm. Stories (and news items) come from the unusual.



Like these? And what do you do with a cleat like this ?!?

Those are some cleats ! But they augment what look like 6x6 [or 8x8] bull rails ... most of ours are 4x4's.