Help from strangers while docking? A poll and my rambling musings.

[Colin Stone]

Generally no. Invariably shore help wants to take rope in wrong direction, or can't understand simple instruction. Eg put eye through the pontoon cleat and then slide a short timber through eye so we can pull it tight.
We normally berth big ship style with the eye on shore bollard. Crew on foredeck drops eye over bollard, if necessary using a 13ft boat hook. This the becomes a short spring which I drive against to screw hull alongside. Second rope on shore bollard, back to almost midships ship bollard, so forming a V with open end on board. Second rope the goes back to shore, round bollard and back to foredeck. All the while idling ahead with rudder over. I step off stern, this time with eye onboard, rope round shore bollard and back onboard.
All done, dusted and doubled up without discussion. Depending on jetty, we may reverse with the V towards the stern, but exactly the same procedure. Very rarely use the bow thruster, perhaps twice a year if wind or current is a real issue.
22m x 4.85m 70 tons.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yeah... I noticed that too. It's the old "news is always bad" syndrome. Good stories aren't made from events where everything goes well. That's the norm. Stories (and news items) come from the unusual.

Yes & no.
- Handing a line off on a run of the mill landing where it didn't help or hurt really doesn't drive the choice to ask for help or not. This is going to be the majority of cases and not likely to draw many interesting stories.
- If 1 in 10 times it results in smashing into the dock or worse, someone injured, that justifies greater consideration even though it's a small percentage of dockings, that's enough to drive me to avoid asking for help as a general rule.
- If conditions are really bad and I don't think I can get into the slip, I'm either not going to go into that dock or in rare situations, I might ask for help but it's going to be well thought out and discussed with the onshore help exactly what is expected of them before making the approach.
- It's certainly not just randomly hand off a line to a random guy on the dock and hope for the best.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Yes & no.
- Handing a line off on a run of the mill landing where it didn't help or hurt really doesn't drive the choice to ask for help or not. This is going to be the majority of cases and not likely to draw many interesting stories.
- If 1 in 10 times it results in smashing into the dock or worse, someone injured, that justifies greater consideration even though it's a small percentage of dockings, that's enough to drive me to avoid asking for help as a general rule.
- If conditions are really bad and I don't think I can get into the slip, I'm either not going to go into that dock or in rare situations, I might ask for help but it's going to be well thought out and discussed with the onshore help exactly what is expected of them before making the approach.
- It's certainly not just randomly hand off a line to a random guy on the dock and hope for the best.

I can pick numbers out of the sky as well. How about 1 in 1000. Does that make you feel better?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I can pick numbers out of the sky as well. How about 1 in 1000. Does that make you feel better?

Just an estimate based on what I've seen...feel free to research by having your boat rammed into a dock when they snub you off unexpectedly.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

I've been hanging around public docks in Florida for months now as vagabonds do and have gotten to watch many docking attempts as such.

Even though I single hand, I personally do not want the help of people on the dock in almost all situations. Even at the fuel dock or marina. I do not approach any situation including the dock without a plan to solo execute (without relying on luck/the hope of help) and without a planned exit strategy. If I do want the help, I'm willing to pipe up and ask for it. I've gotten pretty good at warping my boat around and find that no one chooses to learn this skill.

Experiences I've had;
- Dock lines snatched out of my hand to make a terrible cleating job while I was actively cleating off.
- Follow my boat around as I try to pick a spot where they aren't.
- Take a line, accept and reject my instruction, and just stand there occupying the line doing not what I asked or any notion they think is better
- The rare times I have crew, distract them from what I'm trying to orchestrate. This one is really frustrating, there needs to be one voice calling the plan (be the plan right or wrong).
- Stubbornly refuse my warping instructions and try to fight the wind/current with my boat.
- Most commonly, grab the bow line and snub it off hard causing the boat to nose into the dock.

I fully recognise that the person offering the help is at a disadvantage as they don't know my boat, my lines, or my plan, I will help anyone on the dock, but I don't offer it. Since I generally find the help I don't ask for too be of no help at all, I generally choose not to be that person.

So, what are your thoughts?

As my boat is 42' and weighs 32,000 lbs., backs like a truck, and can be a handful docking under windy conditions or strong tide I generally like dock assistance particularly when I'm solo. I don't expect them to do the best securing to a cleat the way I like it because I always do my own for security. The worst ones are those that are too aggressive and start yanking the boat in one direction or another or tying off too quickly...they don't know to listen for directions from the skipper/crew. If they just loop the lines around the cleat and securely hold the boat in I'm happy. That gives me enough time to shut the engine down and disembark to do the tiedown.

On my previous boat that was only 28', 6,000 lbs., with a fin keel, I could thrill the crowd by turning it on a dime and putting it exactly where I wanted it but still didn't mind some shore assistance...and applause.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MJH

That gives me enough time to shut the engine down and disembark to do the tiedown.

This brings an interesting point. I see a lot of people shut their engines down as soon as they're in the slip, sometimes before even getting the first line on.

I've never understood what the rush is to get it shut down 30 seconds sooner. For us, the engines stay running until I'm entirely sure they're no longer needed, then I'll go shut them down. Generally that's when we've got 3 or so lines on and I'd be comfortable walking away for 5 minutes if I needed to.

[JMR1138]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

This brings an interesting point. I see a lot of people shut their engines down as soon as they're in the slip, sometimes before even getting the first line on.

I've never understood what the rush is to get it shut down 30 seconds sooner. For us, the engines stay running until I'm entirely sure they're no longer needed, then I'll go shut them down. Generally that's when we've got 3 or so lines on and I'd be comfortable walking away for 5 minutes if I needed to.

I honestly can't say that I've ever seen anyone piloting a sailboat of 'cruising size' (which I will arbitrarily say is 35' or more) do this. If I ever saw a pilot do this while coming into a slip they were to share with me, there would be a discussion about all that could go wrong even if they got their line and speed correct. Lines fail, cleats fail, people slip off docks (literally just finished helping a dude out of the water here in PR about 4 mins ago).

These aren't things anyone can completely control and (given there is risk the the property of others) aren't decisions any pilot should feel empowered to make.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by MJH

As my boat is 42' and weighs 32,000 lbs., backs like a truck, and can be a handful docking under windy conditions or strong tide I generally like dock assistance particularly when I'm solo. I don't expect them to do the best securing to a cleat the way I like it because I always do my own for security. ... On my previous boat that was only 28', 6,000 lbs., with a fin keel, I could thrill the crowd by turning it on a dime and putting it exactly where I wanted it but still didn't mind some shore assistance...and applause.

This is my suspicion as well; that certain boats and certain crews are more likely to want/need dock assistance compared to others. Certainly when we had a smaller/lighter/more manoeuvrable boat, I was happy to bring it in solo, with no assistance. Now that we have a rather massive boat (30,000#) that steers like a freight train, I usually appreciate the help -- even if very rarely, that assistance is poorly given.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by JMR1138

I honestly can't say that I've ever seen anyone piloting a sailboat of 'cruising size' (which I will arbitrarily say is 35' or more) do this. If I ever saw a pilot do this while coming into a slip they were to share with me, there would be a discussion about all that could go wrong even if they got their line and speed correct. Lines fail, cleats fail, people slip off docks (literally just finished helping a dude out of the water here in PR about 4 mins ago).

These aren't things anyone can completely control and (given there is risk the the property of others) aren't decisions any pilot should feel empowered to make.

I see it more often than I'd like to, even on 40+ foot boats (sail and power). It's usually the types that will stop the boat with lines rather than the engine(s). Or the nervous types that will get the boat halfway into the slip, get a person or 2 on the dock and kill the engines while they drag the boat the rest of the way in.

It's certainly the minority of overall dockings that I see, but it's far more common than I'd expect.

[gillesgiv]

Never give your bow line to anyone on the dock!! He will pull your bow in against the dock. Unless you have a stern thruster, you will loose control. If you give your stern line, no problemo. You can always keep control. If the stern is tied you can motor gently forward and the boat will slowly align itself parrallel to the dock if you have enough room obviously. In that situation the bow thruster will make it even easier. If you are in a strong current that pushes you away from the dock, this is an other story and much more difficult. It is true for power and sailboats.

[lo2jones]

This survey was too simple for me. I usually have a plan well worked out either single handing or with crew. Someone taking a line, won’t know the plan and/or may be drunk. I’ve taken many groups of kids to Angel Island in SF Bay and always instruct them on how to politely but firmly refuse offers of help. Rarely I accept help from strangers.

[refuge]

I always have a 30 foot line attached to nothing that I hand to helpers. By the time they reel it in I have my spring lines on.

[daydreamer]

>So, what are your thoughts?

Same as yours.

If I have crew, I instruct them in advance to refuse all help and ignore all advice from the dock. To just say "no, thank you" and continue on with our original plan or my new instructions. If dock people continue to bother us at this critical time, I will holler "quiet on the dock, please!" By the second or third time I holler, most people get the hint. A couple times, when the dock people are very persistent or my crew is easily distracted,I've had to remind my crew "ignore the people on the dock; listen to me, not them!"

I try not to be mean about it, but I will get forceful. A successful docking is more important to me than a clueless stranger's feelings.

[CarinaPDX]

Gee,after reading these posts I can't imagine why other nationals think Americans are rude...

Just sayin'

Greg

[Moana Bella]

Our boat is rather large, with high freeboard, and no bow thruster, and usually just the two of us to wrangle her into a pen. The bow goes the way of the wind. So we always appreciate someone grabbing a line.
I generally call out to someone I know, and throw them the line and direct to a specific cleat, while I get a control line onto midships, so whatever they do, it usually doesn't do any harm and even a crappy job can soon be fixed once I step off. Main issue seems to be people thinking they can pull in a 16 tonne boat against the wind without getting around the cleat first. So far so good.... BUT??
I always offer help to incoming boats, especially when its windy. A common courtesy which is generally observed around yacht clubs - especially by people used to crewing on other people's boats. But I don't do anything unless instructed, and then its just get the line around the designated cleat, then stand by with it under control awaiting further instructions, ease as necessary, or handover to crew. But I guess I've been pretty well trained by the racing fraternity, and unfortunately not everyone has experience docking keel boats.
Actually the ones I really appreciate are those on the next finger - too far away for me to be any help, but close enough to enjoy when they obligingly put on an amusing show around sundowner time. Cheers!