Help from strangers while docking? A poll and my rambling musings.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

I believe you had written something along the lines of, I just hand them a midship line and not much can go wrong.

While I started this gripe fest, I really don't stress about docking, even if I'm getting "help".

- AT

Having a bowsprit is concerning as most "help" watches the bow not the sprit.
I voted no help.
This poll is closer than I thought.
However, on my Old Sloop, occasionally I'd hand a line to someone dock side.
And have had them walk away at a critical time.
Boatyarddog

[rbk]

Anytime someone dockside says ‘throw me the bow line’ I know that I don’t want their help. I simply tune out the dock king/queens barking orders and when I step off and simply tie the spring and aft lines they quickly shut up.

When I offer or am asked for help as mentioned above, hold the line given to me and wait captains orders, also I never cleat or tie off, I always hold as requested then hand it off to whoever comes off to relieve me.

[somanyboats]

we never hand helpers the bowline, midship, or aft lines only

[PJS]

[QUOTE=Atcowboy;3612696]I've been hanging around public docks in Florida for months now as vagabonds do and have gotten to watch many docking attempts as such.

Even though I single hand, I personally do not want the help of people on the dock in almost all situations. Even at the fuel dock or marina. I do not approach any situation including the dock without a plan to solo execute (without relying on luck/the hope of help) and without a planned exit strategy. If I do want the help, I'm willing to pipe up and ask for it. I've gotten pretty good at warping my boat around and find that no one chooses to learn this skill.

Experiences I've had;
- Dock lines snatched out of my hand to make a terrible cleating job while I was actively cleating off.
- Follow my boat around as I try to pick a spot where they aren't.
- Take a line, accept and reject my instruction, and just stand there occupying the line doing not what I asked or any notion they think is better
- The rare times I have crew, distract them from what I'm trying to orchestrate. This one is really frustrating, there needs to be one voice calling the plan (be the plan right or wrong).
- Stubbornly refuse my warping instructions and try to fight the wind/current with my boat.
- Most commonly, grab the bow line and snub it off hard causing the boat to nose into the dock.


"the admiral is not afraid to tell them to get their hands off the boat and get the **** out of the way"....


Gee, and some often wonder why others look at boaters/yachties as stiff, arrogant, A**holes! Hum, I wonder why?
Nice attitudes... You act as though someone who offers help is doing so because they simply have nothing better to do and just want to screw you up.

It's really simple, you own the boat (assumption), you are the Captain and direct accordingly. Unless you are docking on a public dock the one offering assistance is associated to a boat somewhere at the marina and has some knowledge about docking. I always assume they know nothing and give direct, clear and concise instruction if I choose the assistance - even if it is declining assistance. Which can be done without being an insulting a..hole. "Thanks for the offer but we are working on being able to dock with no assistance..."

If you were to tell me to get my hands off your boat and ****off you would be told not so politely to go fornicate yourself and make, more than likely, not your first enemy on the dock. You probably would be swimming at that point as well....

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by somanyboats

we never hand helpers the bowline, midship, or aft lines only

That makes perfect sense.
Boatyarddog

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by PJS

If you were to tell me to get my hands off your boat and ****off you would be told not so politely to go fornicate yourself and make, more than likely, not your first enemy on the dock. You probably would be swimming at that point as well....

That phrase is pretty much a last resort. But when a spring line is handed off to a gas dock attendant, they're told what cleat to put it on and they instead yell over "no, you need to be forward further" and walk forward with the line and start trying to drag the boat (causing me to almost dislocate their shoulder with the engines to keep the pulpit from smashing a piling due to them pulling on the line hard in an unintended direction), they're going to be told to get the **** away from my boat and don't touch anything again. In the case of a gas dock, the attendant can tell me where they want me, but they are not in charge of how I'm docking or where my lines need to go. If they can't accept that the captain is in charge and their ego gets dangerous (and they're not listening to polite instructions), then I no longer give a damn about them (or what they think of me) and will say whatever gets them to stop putting my boat in danger the fastest. So far, it's only ever gone anywhere near that far once (and I also know several other boaters that had equally bad experiences with that same gas dock attendant).

[Stu Jackson]

[QUOTE=PJS;3613565]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


If you were to tell me to get my hands off your boat and ****off you would be told not so politely to go fornicate yourself and make, more than likely, not your first enemy on the dock. You probably would be swimming at that point as well....

WADR, I firmly disagree. I can't begin to tell you how many times "knowledgeable" dockidiots have pulled and yanked on my stanchions, usually at the top of them, with the largest moment arm. Rebedding stanchions because of dockidiots' stupidity gets really old, really quick.


Please leave my boat alone!

[PJS]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That phrase is pretty much a last resort. But when a spring line is handed off to a gas dock attendant, they're told what cleat to put it on and they instead yell over "no, you need to be forward further" and walk forward with the line and start trying to drag the boat (causing me to almost dislocate their shoulder with the engines to keep the pulpit from smashing a piling due to them pulling on the line hard in an unintended direction), they're going to be told to get the **** away from my boat and don't touch anything again. In the case of a gas dock, the attendant can tell me where they want me, but they are not in charge of how I'm docking or where my lines need to go. If they can't accept that the captain is in charge and their ego gets dangerous (and they're not listening to polite instructions), then I no longer give a damn about them (or what they think of me) and will say whatever gets them to stop putting my boat in danger the fastest. So far, it's only ever gone anywhere near that far once (and I also know several other boaters that had equally bad experiences with that same gas dock attendant).

Point taken, but the fuel dock employees are very specific individuals and the few.... that is not what was represented in the opening threads.
If you have a problem with a specific fuel dock over and over my question is why would you continue to go to that fuel dock?
Any fuel dock I have been to, and there have been many, 99.9% take instruction well and their actions represent they understand what's at stake and the Captain of the vessel has command.
Do you not ask the fuel attendant "where do you want me?" Specifically, what cleat(s)? If not, maybe that is part of your issues.

Yes, we ALL have a horror story or ten with this type of scenario. I guess my point is calm heads prevail, in any situation. Clear, concise, instruction AND communication eliminate a vast majority of the problems. If every Captain were to have done a postmortem on every incident (as they should do), I think poor communication, lack of clear direction, and tempers based on preconceived bias are the root cause.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by PJS

Point taken, but the fuel dock employees are very specific individuals and the few.... that is not what was represented in the opening threads.
If you have a problem with a specific fuel dock over and over my question is why would you continue to go to that fuel dock?
Any fuel dock I have been to, and there have been many, 99.9% take instruction well and their actions represent they understand what's at stake and the Captain of the vessel has command.
Do you not ask the fuel attendant "where do you want me?" Specifically, what cleat(s)? If not, maybe that is part of your issues.

Yes, we ALL have a horror story or ten with this type of scenario. I guess my point is calm heads prevail, in any situation. Clear, concise, instruction AND communication eliminate a vast majority of the problems. If every Captain were to have done a postmortem on every incident (as they should do), I think poor communication, lack of clear direction, and tempers based on preconceived bias are the root cause.

In that fuel dock's case, there isn't really another choice in the area. And the rest of their employees are perfectly fine (and I'm pretty sure the one from that incident is no longer there). It's not a massive fuel dock, so generally I go all the way to one end or the other to maximize available space (a quick google maps measurement says the fuel dock is 95 feet long). That one day, it wasn't enough, he wanted me hanging 10 feet off the end (so my bow was blocking one of the slips for the neighboring restaurant) despite there being one other small boat on the fuel dock (getting ready to leave) and nobody waiting.

With other boaters on the dock walking over to help, the majority are perfectly fine. I've never had one do anything particularly bad when helping and most are fine with it if we decline assistance.

[clakiep]

Docking with the sometimes unwanted help of others at the dock can be a pain in the ass.
If they are shouting instructions at You instead of communicating, or better following Your intructions, You have to become deaf to them or shout them away. I had many dicussions with so called harbourmasters, but only afterwords I was securely docked. As long as Your ship is afloat You are the captain, no matter where.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties

[Mike OReilly]

It's too bad CF polls aren't able to be more nuanced. I bet there's a strong correlation between help vs no help as compared to size or type of vessel, size of crew, cruising area...

As usual, there is no one simple answer. Certainly no right answer for everyone.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by jibstay

I’m surprised no one has mentioned people on the dock grabbing your lifelines.

That one I really don’t like. It’s typically launch drivers that do this in my experience.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's too bad CF polls aren't able to be more nuanced. I bet there's a strong correlation between help vs no help as compared to size or type of vessel, size of crew, cruising area...

As usual, there is no one simple answer. Certainly no right answer for everyone.

I would be willing to bet that, paradoxically, the single-handers are the ones most likely to decline help. This would result from a need, and a habit, to think things out very carefully, in advance, to not depend upon assistance. In my experience, it is the ones with large crews that approach docks indecisively, and sometimes without lines and/or fenders not in place. I always tell people to learn to sail singlehand, not for any macho or bragging rights, or even to do it often, but to train them to think ahead and figure out the correct sequence and easy way to do things.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by contrail

I would be willing to bet that, paradoxically, the single-handers are the ones most likely to decline help. This would result from a need, and a habit, to think things out very carefully, in advance, to not depend upon assistance. In my experience, it is the ones with large crews that approach docks indecisively, and sometimes without lines and/or fenders not in place. I always tell people to learn to sail singlehand, not for any macho or bragging rights, or even to do it often, but to train them to think ahead and figure out the correct sequence and easy way to do things.

Agreed.
Really a world of difference.
Also, I never discount the ability just to row in, or anchor till situation is better.
Mainly last choice, in a those cases it's usually the prudent thing to do.
Boatyarddog

[Russ]

I guess I don’t know what “warping around “ means but sounds like a valuable skill
Please explain

Russ