Help from strangers while docking? A poll and my rambling musings.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by basssears

I always took warping to mean moving the boat without the engine, and what you're describing as "springing" where you're using the engine against a cleated line... am I getting this wrong?

I have watched large engineless boats walk across a harbor by using two anchors with rope rodes. I believe that is called warping. The common theme is using warps (i.e. rope) to accomplish the task of moving a vessel. Using a spring line to stop and hold a boat in place doesn't seem to me to be warping, as the goal is not to move the boat, but to stop it.

Per The Sailing Dictionary the relevant definition of warp: v. "To move a vessel by hauling on a warp which may be secured to a bollard or to a warping buoy".

Greg

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by basssears

I always took warping to mean moving the boat without the engine, and what you're describing as "springing" where you're using the engine against a cleated line... am I getting this wrong?

I've seen it used more along these lines as well. In fact, I believe the most typical version of warping I've seen is when a ship uses two anchors to walk itself out of a harbor. Using a rowing boat to carry an anchor out ahead, then using the windlass to creep up to that anchor, then carrying a second anchor out further. So on and so on until the ship reaches a position where it can successfully sail out.

Of course this is in the context of square riggers in the age of sail, but I believe that was what was originally meant by the term. On modern boats I would use it to mean any version of repositioning by hauling on lines without using the engine.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

I guess I'm the unusual single-hander who prefers to have help. In fact, I am more likely to anchor out, dinghy in, scope out a new dock, and even discuss dockside assistance before coming in vs. trying to do it single-handed.

Then again I'm the type that does get rather anxious about docking, especially with other people's boats nearby for me to worry about damaging.

When I was cruising full time I very rarely docked at all, preferring to stay at anchor. Probably lead to not getting enough practice docking in varying conditions and configurations. I'm sure I'd be a better sailor if I practiced docking single-handed more often. The consequence of screwing up while learning just seem so severe!

Ha, us too, and I cruise as a couple. I (we) would much rather anchor than go to a dock. It's a combination of being a piss-poor docker, along with my general tendency to want to avoid urban areas.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

I've seen it used more along these lines as well. In fact, I believe the most typical version of warping I've seen is when a ship uses two anchors to walk itself out of a harbor. Using a rowing boat to carry an anchor out ahead, then using the windlass to creep up to that anchor, then carrying a second anchor out further. So on and so on until the ship reaches a position where it can successfully sail out.

Of course this is in the context of square riggers in the age of sail, but I believe that was what was originally meant by the term. On modern boats I would use it to mean any version of repositioning by hauling on lines without using the engine.

My understanding of this is those square riggers would have been warped out of their docks. The warps, the name for the line used to do this, would be handled by dock workers and the docks would likely have large capstans in strategic locations to help with the task.

Walking a boat along using anchors is known only as kedging, I believe. I've never heard it called warping. I imagine they may have been kedged out into the harbor where they could get the wind. I always imagined a couple of oared tugs manned with 20 strong backs a piece to do the job.

Another thing I have done before. I helped a sailor kedge off a shoal in Barnegat, NJ. Their outboard was dodgy, so I helped them continue to kedge out to safe waters with two anchors rather than trust the outboard to motor them in front of/upwind of a very expensive cat.

- AT

[CarinaPDX]

I think you're right about kedging instead of warping. My bad...

Greg

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I think you're right about kedging instead of warping. My bad...

Greg

Before I sailed, I used to think the boating vernacular was so pretentious. Once I started to learn it, I realized it was useful and understood why it continued to be used. I imagine that doctors and lawyers have similar realizations about those crazy medical names and the legalese....

After I started sailing it also stuck me how many nautical terms and sayings we use in every day conversation!

- AT

[contrail]

Not pushing on stanchions used to be considered a real no-no. I still hate to do it or see it done, but I believe the EC standard (and many of our boats are built to those standards) now mandates that stanchions can support a pretty big load....not sure what it is, but I think it is in hundreds of pounds, so, at least on modern boats, it may be an outdated fear. I will never forget seeing a young man, who wanted to go from the dock to his boat, which was rafted alongside and outboard of ours, and who wanted to go over the bows, so not to disturb us, "walk" himself up our hull (topsides) by holding onto the stanchion. Before I could stop him, he was onboard and headed over to his boat. My boat was a Leopard cat, built to conform with EC standards, and whilst I still would not do the same thing, it gave me something to think about!

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by contrail

Not pushing on stanchions used to be considered a real no-no. I still hate to do it or see it done, but I believe the EC standard (and many of our boats are built to those standards) now mandates that stanchions can support a pretty big load....not sure what it is, but I think it is in hundreds of pounds, so, at least on modern boats, it may be an outdated fear. I will never forget seeing a young man, who wanted to go from the dock to his boat, which was rafted alongside and outboard of ours, and who wanted to go over the bows, so not to disturb us, "walk" himself up our hull (topsides) by holding onto the stanchion. Before I could stop him, he was onboard and headed over to his boat. My boat was a Leopard cat, built to conform with EC standards, and whilst I still would not do the same thing, it gave me something to think about!

I have an old cape dory, so definitely not CE rated. I've stood on my stanchions, life lines, tried to haul myself in the boat as you describe... I like to stand on the pulpit and Tarzan into the water off a halyard also... But I don't think I'd do what that man did to a stranger's boat.

- AT

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

I have an old cape dory, so definitely not CE rated. I've stood on my stanchions, life lines, tried to haul myself in the boat as you describe... I like to stand on the pulpit and Tarzan into the water off a halyard also... But I don't think I'd do what that man did to a stranger's boat.

One of the nastiest things to do to stanchions is to lean on the top lifeline when the gate is opened. This is effectively "sweating" and results in the downward force converting to a greater horizontal force on the top of the stanchion at the open gate. I finally just gave up asking people to stop doing it - there seems to be a lot of resistance to learning in this world. So my gate stanchions are quite noticeably splayed outwards, which also means that the lifelines are loose when the gate is open. It does take some self control to resist reminding them yet again to not lean on the lifelines, or better yet point out the damage already done, but it is clearly not a battle that can be won.

Greg

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

One of the nastiest things to do to stanchions is to lean on the top lifeline when the gate is opened. This is effectively "sweating" and results in the downward force converting to a greater horizontal force on the top of the stanchion at the open gate. I finally just gave up asking people to stop doing it - there seems to be a lot of resistance to learning in this world. So my gate stanchions are quite noticeably splayed outwards, which also means that the lifelines are loose when the gate is open. It does take some self control to resist reminding them yet again to not lean on the lifelines, or better yet point out the damage already done, but it is clearly not a battle that can be won.

Greg

Stanchions definitely have a tough job. A two foot lever arm that we want to be perfectly rigid. Maybe you can electrify your top life line?

- AT

[thomm225]

I accept help if it was from girls like the ones that help Richard dock his boat in the Movie Adift!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdMP4sWc71M

[Atcowboy]

Not docking help, but I just had my second experience like this (both today?) and figured I'd just drop it here....

Stranger posing for a picture in front of my boat. The second one, the woman was hanging onto my shroud and leaning on it... ? I felt the boat move and pop my head up, "hello!?". A little incredulously...

- AT

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

Not docking help, but I just had my second experience like this (both today?) and figured I'd just drop it here....

Stranger posing for a picture in front of my boat. The second one, the woman was hanging onto my shroud and leaning on it... ? I felt the boat move and pop my head up, "hello!?". A little incredulously...

- AT

Manners are gone. Adults acting like children who had no parents at all to teach them wrong or right.

In 1 week this winter I had a big run in with people like that.

First, a lady lets her big, unleashed dog just lift his leg and pee all over my motorcycle. When I said something, instead of apologizing, she yelled at ME, calling me closed minded.

Same week, a boat neighbor’s guest starts peeing all over my stuff and shore power cord. There a head on the boats, bathrooms at the marina office and even some porta potties nearby. But instead of using those, he pees all over my stuff.

I am like are you kidding me?

Then he tries to fight me instead of apologizing too. Walks at me yelling and getting threatening. I’m tiny. I just had a heart attack about a year ago and lost all my muscle. Not to mention on 3 different blood thinners at the time. I wasn’t about to die over it.

But wow. This is why I sail. Not to meet people. To get AWAY from people.

[ranger58sb]

FWIW... where actual dock hands are involved...

We've been having some better results lately by talking through our plan first with the dock hands by radio or hailer.

Ignoring our instructions when those have been delivered by the Admiral on the foredeck... is especially irritating.

So more recently, we've been standing off the dock -- close enough to judge current and wind, see which cleats or piles we want to use, which lines first, etc. -- and then waiting until dock hands agree they'll do what we want, before making the final approach.

-Chris

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It seems clear, after reading some responses here, that I seem to cruise in a very different area than some others. I've found that most of the people I encounter at the dock are reasonably knowledgeable, and generally do know what they're doing. My default assumption is that just that; the person standing at the dock generally does know what they're doing.

Problem is "most" is still problematic (and I would agree with your assessment in general not just in your area).

If 90% are knowledgeable and 10% aren't, that means, if you dock 50 times in a year, that means 5 times you get the bow slammed into the dock because you got "help".